Learning to love Mozart as much as he deserves

I love Bach and Beethoven, too (both more than Mozart, frankly), and I am not the best one to tell you why you should love Mozart, but I know he was a prodigal genius who could compose music in his head, including whole symphonies, and he would know how things will sound and what instrumentation to use, all without the use of a piano. I know what you mean when you say his music sounds polite in some ways but listen deeper and you will hear plenty of fascinating things going on.  Hopefully others will be able to tell you more on what is so great about Mozart. 

In terms of stuff to listen to in order to enhance your appreciation, of course his requiem is great, and his opera Don Giovanni is fun to listen to.  I have the Don Giovanni on EMI Classics with Sutherland, Frick, Schwarzkopf, and other good singers with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Giulini (CDCC 7 47260-2). Great recording and you can probably find it used on LP.  I also have a great LP of Szell Conducting the Cleveland Orchestra on Columbia records. On it they play 4 of his great symphonies (35, 39, 40, and 41) on two records.  I bet that the recording is also on CD, or you can try to find it in shops that sell used records. 

Like my Dad says, "There's no art like Mozart."   

I have always enjoyed his last 5 symphonies, and the Magic Flute never fails to charm me, but all attempts to penetrate his piano sonatas have failed.

Mike, I would definitely start with some of his piano concertos. Aside from a few early ones, you can't go wrong with any of them. Picking from personal favorite performers: Murray Perahia, Mitsuko Uchida, Alfred Brendel, more recently David Frey and Piotr Anderszewski and in the distant past Clara Haskil all made unforgettable contributions. 

Mozart's genius expressed itself most clearly in these concertos and his operas - Onip mentioned Don Giovanni, and Le Nozze di Figaro is also a good place to start. Die Zauberflöte is popular but it took me a while to 'get' it. Mozart used his operas to express critique at the establishment, often in double layers, and to appreciate the subtleties I have found it helps to read up on Mozart's life and times. The film 'Amadeus' provides a great teaser, although inaccurate according to most historians.

Cheers,

EJ

My favourite Mozart is found among the Piano Concertos. I agree that Clara Haskil was uniquely fine among pianists from a past age, but the recordings of her are curiously off-beat technically in the main. This is very sad as her pianism is so special I adore her performances, but hesitate to give them an outright recommendation for the new entrant to Mozart. Similarly the recordings of Edwin Fischer were all made before the perfection of stereo techniques though his recordings for HMV during the 78 era from the early thirtues to the late forties are also a wonderful testament to a great musician playing great music, and if anything better recorded than Haskil's.

But I will recommend an unsung heroine of the piano, very much still active and recorded in well balanced modern recordings: Carmen Piazzini. Her cycle of Piano Concertos is easily the set that I return to most of all now. The recordings are currently available and a quick internet search will soon find them at a cheaper price than such superb performances usually come for. Her set of Piano Sonatas is also spendid.

A marvelous concertante work is the Symphonia Concerte in E flat, K 364. I would recommend the recording by Artur Grumiaux as violin soloist, with the LSO under Colin Davis on Philips. I regret to say that I cannot remember who Grumiaux's estimable partnering soloist was on viola, but just as fine. Remarkably enjoyable teamwork between them, and Davis's LSO simply sparkles in sympathetic accompaniments. This comes on a 2 CD set from Philips with Grumiaux's splendid cycle of the five solo Violin Concertos. A tip top recommendation at budget price, which again belies the quality of these great performances.

While we are in the K360s, remember also the extra-ordinary Serenade for 13 Wind Instruments in B Flat, K 361, often called by the name Gran Partita. I think there are many great performances of this and I would recomend that powerful performance by members of the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Otto Klemperer.

The performance [linked below] I found on youtube is rather fine of the Adagio Third Movement. Here we find the Contrabasson part played on the double bass as Mozart originally intended, and in some places in other movements, the call for pizzicato surely indicates that the idea of using a Contrabasoon is is a later one! I am not sure who these players are but I like it as an introduction to a unique and splendid work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs_Pya-s2io&feature=related

As befits the possibility with the music, Klemperer used both a double bass and a contrabassoon for best support of the other parts - not doubled of course!!.

Then you also should consider the late Clarinet Concerto in A. I like the performance by Thea King, though there are any number of stupendous recorded performances of this.

And finally for now - while Mozart's genius for Opera is extra-ordinary, Don Giovanni, Cosi Fan Tutti, and The Marriage Of Figaro, as well as The Magic Flute are my personal favourites and the only Operas I still have recordings of apart from Betthoven's Fidelio - I would like to suggest you investigate the "Great Mass" in C Minor. I recommend the recording on Philips with John Eliot Gardiner. Sublime and towering, and yet accessible as well. [The Requiem rightly has already been recommended above].

Here is a [youtube] live performance from Gardiner, that gives a flavour of the Philips recording. For once the commercial recording has all the fervour of a great live performance, with Gardiner's usual insistence on perfection. Often that steam-rollers the spirit out of the music, but not in this case.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuFA3DmglwI

That is for starters.

If this thread lives a long while, then I give some more recommendations in other genres from the Master as well. The more you listen to his music the more you realise that the perfection of form is not trite but like a heavenly phenomenon that is just as moving as the perfection of Bach. And just as deeply emotional as Bach or Beethoven, but more carefully crafted, not because of the care taken, but because of his inherent genius that enabled perfection without much reworking of ideas, which is different to Beethoven's more worked over [sometimes over years, such as the tune in the Finale of the choral symphony for example] and corrected music.

To compare Mozart with Haydn is odious in both directions! They were friends, and Haydn wrote music in a style that Mozart never would have and the same applies the other way round. though there are real parallels in some of the String Quartets! Mozart made Concertos that Haydn never approached for genius, and Haydn wrote Symphonies that Mozart really only rivalled in the last three from his wonderful canon!

ATB from George

I have a complete set of the piano sonatas by Lily Krauss on LP.  Back in the 70s, in these environs, she was highly regarded.  I can attest that the playing is of the highest order.

Anyone else know of her?

Indeed! One of the great pianists in Mozart and even Beethoven. I hardly dared to imagine anyone else would still remember her by now!

Thanks for the nostalgia reading her name again brought me! A nice smile imside! I would say that Carmen Piazzini is just as fine though, and we have recordings to shows us the legends as well as the moderns, and the legends should not be forgotten IMO, though not invariably be placed ahead of the current generation!

ATB from George

For Piano, I really like Brendel and Murray Perahia.  Brendel's Beethoven stuff is amazing, and I imagine his Mozart is great too (but haven't heard it).  I have one Perahia Mozart CD I think, and I really like his Chopin, too.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9NslWR4Jlc&NR=1

First Movement of the "Gran Partita" as mentioned above in Klemperer's estimable recorded performance.

I knew it was on youtube somewhere!

ATB from George

Dear Nathaniel,

This is often to be laid at the door of the performance as much as the music. The music itself may not suit everyone, be it by Mozart or Haydn, but a routine performance of either has the ability to rob the music of its effervesent joy, and then the contrasts are lost and the music can seem to be dull, even accademically dull. We know that both Haydn and Mozart were far from dry, accademic, or predictable [i.e not in the least routine] people, and thus such performances ill-fit their musical styles. Their styles are actually quite ellusive to really get right inside of. Far harder than the broader styles of the later romantics for example. There is no room for a broad brush approach of big romantic dynamic shifts or big changes in tempi within the music, and yet the phrases must team with life full of minute nuances but never exagerated, and there is next to nothing in the scores to indicate how that should be done, unlike later scores which are frequently pepered with markings. In Haydn and Mozart [as with Bach before them] it is not unusal to find the bowing only sketched in sporadically, a tempo indication [sometimes not even that much] at the start and sparse terraced dynamics marked at key architectural points. A performance that observed these marking without imagination would be dull by the third bar, let alone the sixtieth.

We will soon have a Haydn thread again, so I hope you will enjoy reading some fine reco's for performances of his music there!

ATB from George

Why?

Why not?

Hello George

That is indeed an interesting find. A little digging reveals that they appear to be the West Liberty University, Wheeling Symphony Youth Orchestra; the conductor being Dr. Matthew Inkster, the poster of the video. They do not appear to have made/released any recordings unfortunately as I would have liked a copy of their full version of the piece. However, it can be listened to via this link should anyone else be interested.   http://www.youtube.com/user/matthewinkster

Mozart is for me the finest of all composers, his concertos, choral and operas being my personal favourites. 

Mike…. I hope you will persevere; there is much to be enjoyed.

Regards

Peter

Dear Peter,

Such a performance would be diserving of a proper recording and commercial release, but the names would guarantee a non-starters in sales terms. Sometimes youtube lets us glimse something very special. You may be sure that I'll be listening to the whole performance before nightfall!

Yhanks for the link. ATB from George

Very good point George. Shame it has to be so.

Regards

Peter

Perhaps this

I think it's marvelous.

SJB

In my teens Beethoven was King. Mozart was just too light and frivolous. I think that one of the turning points for me was watching Amadeus. The opening sequence, and the opening bars from the 40th Symphony (from memory) just turned my opinion on its head.

If you've never seen Amadeus I'd recommend it, Gardiner conducted the music.

As I've got older Mozart has done a sneak attack, seditiously undermining Beethoven / Brahms et al.

Over the last 15 years I find myself listening to more and more Mozart.

Pure genius. Think what he might have done had he lived another couple of decades - tragic.

M

Mr. Baggins,

Small correction: it was Neville Marriner conducting the soundtrack for Amadeus (well, this is the music forum, right?). 

EJ

Yep, I think you are right.

Best go and take my tablets ...if only I could remember where I put them ...

M

I'm going with this.  The whole package looks appealing :-)

A tad tangental perhaps, but your question reminded me of a TV series in 1991 in which 6 composers were asked to produce their "take" on Mozart as part of the 200th anniversary celebrations of his death.  The body of work was called "Not Mozart"  and included productions called "Letters, Riddles and Writs" and "M is for Man, Music Mozart".  The prodctions are well worth a watch, assuming copies of the broadcasts can be obtained.   



I thoroughly enjoyed the series and have it recorded on a VHS tape somewhere in the loft - but I no longer have a VHS player.  My particular favorite was "Letters, Riddles and Writs" in which I first encountered the wonderful voice of Ute Lemper.

Who knows, maybe some answers may be found in these interpretations of Mozart's work.

A bit like Vivaldi's Four Seasons, some of the most immediately accessible compositions of Mozart are over-played.  So I do understand if you have had difficulty getting into Mozart,

Me, I love Mozart.  The first LP I ever (conciously) heard was at the age of 3 or 4, my now late Uncle Ronnie playing me the Dennis Brain Horn Concertos with the lurid pink sleeve.  (So he's the one who is guilty of making me such a music nut!)

As I grew up, so my tastes developed.  As a late teenager then student years came Marriage of Figaro, Requiem, clarinet, flute and piano concertos, and subsequently the large corpus of sacred works.   Now my tastes have led me towards chamber works.  I still only dabble with the Symphonies.

My real love remains Mozart's Operas, and his sacred works, some of which I have been privileged to experience at 'work'

When Phillips released their Complete Mozart for the bicentenary in 1991, I got the two boxes of 'Masses and Requiem' and 'Vespers and Litanies'.  Quite hard to find now, and always only s/h.  The unremitting sacred music seems to be a bit esoteric for some people.  So as a decent dabble in a range of the sacred works, this looks worth a punt:

15 CDs for about $60 in the US.  So called 'lesser' musicians often produce superb recordings!!

Good wishes.

Mike,

I think I understand your sentiments here as I have in the past experienced a similar dilemma with various composers, authors and artists.  My response will probably sound like a ‘pep’ talk but I assure you that it is the same one I give myself and wrestle with quite often.  I also do not want to sound harsh or too blunt but I simply want to put some perspective to your question.  There is no way to do this without ruffling the feathers a little, however, in doing so I hope it leads you down a richer path.

You start off by placing Bach and Beethoven on a pedestal and a self-evident one at that.  There is no argument from me on this but it begs the question of how they got there for you personally in the first place.  The reason I ask is that it would be interesting for me to know who Bach and Beethoven, musically, really represent for you and why a connection to Mozart doesn’t exist to any level.  Perhaps their ideals and human characteristics ring most true to you and you feel connected to what they have to say?  I really think this is the main reason why I prefer some composers to others; I want to spend time with like minded people whom I have something in common with.  This is only natural.

The real question though, in the context of this thread, is how much of Bach and Beethoven do you really know?  This is not a criticism but my hunch is that you are very familiar with only a relatively small piece of the pie?  You found a few things in Bach or Beethoven that are agreeable to you and that was enough to engage you.  You are probably content with this amount and see no need to maybe check out the other regions of Bach or Beethoven that truthfully may not exactly appeal to you either.  Maybe you should approach Mozart in the same way?   For example, your only goal is to find something in Mozart that will cause you to want to investigate more and concentrate on this only.  Is it realistic to expect to like all of Mozart’s output? 

The first kernel of wisdom then that I would like to give you is that you need to be consciously aware that Mozart is not Bach or Beethoven.  I know I am stating the obvious but I am speaking to a mistake that many, including myself, faces and struggles with at some time.  The things you like about Bach and Beethoven you will have to essentially forget about.  Don’t approach Mozart or anyone else looking for these same characteristics or attributes.  You are meeting a new friend here and come expecting to be surprised and intrigued by the mystery and energy of someone new.  Try not to dress Mozart up and expect him to sound like Bach or Beethoven.

Secondly, to modify a well known adage, ask not what Mozart can do for you but what is it that you can do for Mozart?  When you say that you can not get on with the Piano Sonatas, for instance, I would ask in return how much effort did you really put into this before you came to this conclusion.  In the last 40 years, have you listened to them a couple times, dozens of times, hundreds of times?  My point is that understanding and appreciation of anything (especially difficult or more challenging things) takes focus, time, and familiarity.  There is no free lunch here and it is really necessary that you put in the effort.

How much have you read concerning the life and the time period of Mozart?  What is your understanding of the 18^th century forms of Opera, Concerto, or Sonata?  For example, I know that you are particularly enamored with the last three Beethoven piano sonatas.  Are you attracted mostly to the music or do you derive any satisfaction from the Sonata form itself?   If it is the latter then I believe a careful study of the Sonata form itself and in particular those of Mozart and Haydn is essential and will be beneficial.

Music wise, there have been many great suggestions already by the previous posters but I want to stress a few points about the character of Mozart.  I do not know what your perception of Opera is at the moment but hopefully it isn’t one of total distaste or a negative one.  You do not have to like opera per se to like Mozart but the connection is so strong and apparent that some exposure or understanding is really unavoidable.  What is mainly important though is that you understand the world of theatre and the stage at least a little– especially the scope, purpose and drama involved.  My feeling is that if you understand this you will find the necessary fruit of opera in all of Mozart’s different genres – Piano Concertos, Piano Sonatas, Symphonies, Chamber music etc.

I do not mean that a simple sounding Piano Sonata should be expected to sound grand, larger than life or over the top but I do mean that I believe the two things were conceived with the same purpose and from the same mind.  Mozart’s specialty was opera and this connection is apparent even in his small scale works.

Next to the opera output, I find the Piano Concertos to be the next most brilliant or notable aspect of Mozart (despite the fact that only two of these were written in minor keys (d-, c-) ).  It looks like you will have these covered with the Geza Anda set.  For the Piano Sonatas, I’m not sure who you’ve listened to in the past or what you have but try Maria J Pires.  If I have more time later I’ll try to recommend some specific pieces that you might like and at least you should be familiar with.

I want to just add a personal note about the movie Amadeus.  While I liked Amadeus as a movie and as entertainment, I have always had a hard time accepting it as a guide to what I personally imagine Mozart to be like.  In fact, it turns me off a little if for a moment I connect the two and even pretend it to be true.  The music of course is brilliant and can not be faulted.  Hollywood would not exist if they had to rely on presenting someone or something as it might be as this would bore most people and they wouldn’t make the dollars at the box office.  They have to sensationalize it and make it marketable which is a sad thing in my view.  I have the same opinion on any movie I have every seen on any composer that I like such as Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt etc. or any historical figure, for that matter.

There are exceptions though of course and they are all without a doubt ones that do not editorialize about a character but let the music in its simplest form speak for itself.  I’m thinking of the final episode of MASH and the little quartet that Winchester put together with some Korean refugees.  I know the melody from heart but right now I am unable to give the exact piece description so maybe someone can help me out.  It is a slow movement form a Horn or Wind Concerto?  Anyway, the message was clear.  One does not necessarily need to refer to certain recordings or individuals or conductors or hear it live in the best halls by professionals to access this music.  This is OK too but music fundamentally is an activity best experienced when we get involved with it at some level.  Even if you don’t play an instrument everyone can hum or sing or tap or move etc.  

These individuals struggled to play this on homemade instruments and it sounded awful this didn’t matter and of course it was a labor of love for Winchester who quite simply proved the universal power of music.  Those musicians (villagers without any education) as well as the viewers knew that something bigger was happening and we all understood something significant at a human level that words could not relay.  It still chokes me up several decades later just thinking about it.

In summary, I’d say you have a couple of choices.  It isn’t necessarily wrong to just say I know Mozart is great for some people but it just doesn’t work for me.  That is being honest and realistic with who one is.  I know that I have come to this same conclusion on certain other composers.  Often it is a value choice on how you want to spend your time as you can’t do everything.  (ie. spending more time with Mozart means less time for Bach and Beethoven etc.)  The other side of this is to go by the hunch that there is gold and diamonds somewhere within the vast output of Mozart and that finding it will be a reward in itself.  For this, you do need to invest some of your time, have an open mind and be prepared to learn something new.

Best Regards,

Doug

Doug,

I took nothing about Amadeus to reflect on Mozart.  After all, the star playing Mozart was in Animal House.

Regarding Beethoven, I have multiple sets of the piano sonatas, the symphonies, the string quartets and the Missa Solemnis.  For Bach, I have the WTC, St. Matthew's Passion, Italian and French suites, the Brandenburgs and dozens of vocal works.  Regarding this music, I have spend hundreds of hours listening and in the scores.  Readings in music history abound.  I'm not finished with Bach or Beethoven by a long shot.

I love Mozart's late symphonies and his Magic Flute, but haven't listened to much else.  The piano concertos and sonatas are up next :-)

You didn't ruffle my feathers and you didn't read the whole thread either.

My expectations towards Mozart are to have some fun :-)

We are different sorts of collectors.  I will find one recording of a work that is played as well as possible, and try to learn it by heart.  In 10 years or so, I would look for a rendering with those same qualities.  After so many decades, I will pull the set out and listen to them.  Somewhere in there is information about life.  The human saga.

Motives abound :-)

At any rate, this thread is some fun, a quality that seems to abound in Mozart.

What difference does that make? Amadeus was an amazing popular and critical success. Roger Ebert raved about Tom Hulce's performance and I suspect the movie was the first real exposure many people had to the glories of Mozart's music. And by all accounts he was a foul mouthed immature brat on occasion. Sorry if that doesn't fit with the stuffed shirt powdered wig image you project for yourself.

Listen to the Clarinet Concerto. It's music from heaven.