NDX, NDX+DAC, UQ and ADS2

That would be the UnitiServe (although I would LOVE a UnitiStream, without ripping or serving)

Nice write up Julian, thanks.

-Patrick

Hi Plinko

Because UQ plus DAC it is not something I would do at home.

Cheers

A very good review. Thanks.

Good write up Mr H

Hi, Julian. I have performed multiple tests of USB->nDAC/XPS against KDS and I could not find a track or a musical moment where KDS was better or worse in resolution. They render the music differently but both suggest the same soundstage and transparency and the same amount of microdetails. I believe both gears went down to the extremely low jitter in digital domain and very high dynamic range in analogue output stage which eventually makes no difference between them in sheer hi-fi terms.

I'm surprised you didn't try NDX/nDAC with XPS or 555PS -- which I believe is easily available with Peter -- to see what the the top Naim streaming solution can deliver. The external PS reduces the noise and pronounces the details and takes nDAC in absolutely different league. The high margin of improvement is easily expected given such a moderate size of built-in PS.

I too have heard USB [and Mac/Hiface] into DAC [in a different but very capable active system] and it does sound more akin to the type of sound from the Linn ADS's, I agree. But to me, those DAC fronted combos are pretty much unengaging, no boogie if you know what I mean, just sterile "sound" playback. In fact, I have found with nDAC, all computer / USB sources pretty banal, preferring transport based source instead.

Regards power supplies and things, for me, this solution would need to be low box count. I already have 7 boxes just to play records [excluding the record player itself]. If Linn can do ADS2 performance in a single box, I reckon Naim should be able to with their kit. IMO, hifi should be moving to a place where the quality of playback is not restricted by by the amount of rack space one has. I don't want my lounge to look even more like a hifi dealers showroom than it already does.

This is the top Linn digital system as far as I know, maybe not my personal goal but only 2 boxes ...

that is the future IMO.

You will only see that kind of minimalism from Naim if they move to digital power supplies throughout. That really would be the end of the world as we know it.

Julian, I have listened for exactly the system you pictured and it was shockingly far from the way I like the music should be rendered. It was very transparent and spacious but at the same time it was slow and relaxed -- you're just getting asleep with it. Smooth jazz is OK, the organ and chamber music, choirs are all OK, female vocals are good as well. So I do understand so many people may like it -- including me when listening a sleepy Linn samplers    But I much prefer the ARC with Kharma doing the same music which was much more bulky and massive comparing to a slim Linn setup.

And I (obviously) much prefer my modest LP12/282/HC/250.2/Katana. Katana's ceramic drivers are very stiff and Naim grips over them like a bulldog -- resulting in razor sharp transients across the full frequency range which makes music so much more natural -- as if the orchestra is sitting right in front of me. When I get THAT level of enjoyment I really don't care about the number of boxes on my rack.

I know I'm poisoned by Naim. But as long as the other audiophile get trapped into the Naim house sound the multibox concept will justify the price and the inconvenience. And I think that other manufacturers will also move towards external bulky power supplies ready to swipe the high current (like MSB or ASR) and that is the future IMO.

You will only see that kind of minimalism from Naim if they move to digital power supplies throughout. That really would be the end of the world as we know it.

Not really - i hope Naim are working on a solution that is more green yet doesn't compromise SQ and doesn't need to be powered continuously without going off song. It's the way the world is going. The simplicity of the Linn system appeals (although its hiding away a number of power amps within the speakers)..A brace of growing green logos, left permanently powered, with the space and cabling requirements just doesn't do it for me now.  

Interesting write up Julian. It sounds like Naim have done a good job with the NDX.

Cheers

James

Being green was fashionable a few years ago. Most people have now moved on.

Are you for real? That really is the most stupidest comment I have heard in a very long time. If anything it is exactly the opposite, the only way we can survive as a species on this planet is to learn how to manage and consume our resources in a sustainable way. The nuclear disaster that has been unfolding at Fukushima in front of the worlds eyes merely underlines one of the pressing issues we are facing, the importance of us moving on to renewable energy forms.

+1

M

+2

Well said Tog

Razor

You would do well to read this ...

I love the Naim sound but I believe Linn have stolen the march on Naim in the technology stakes. Sure, the Linn presentation from the ADS2 is not exactly what I am after but when you look at the level it plays at for such a simple solution one has to start asking questions of Naim. Swallowing the upgrade spiel aside, it has nothing going for it for the punter except lots of unsightly boxes, Fraim, electrricity, embodied energy and money.

Naim need to invest in the future, NOW.

Julian

Julian, I wonder why do we focus on this now? Wasn't it the same when people were raving about CD555 against Linn CD12 and the very same words have been used on the both forums?

You say Linn presentation is still far from your liking (as well as mine) -- but isn't it the KEY element for what we pay for? The reference of the "level" it plays does not work for me --- my nDAC/XPS is surely retrieving the same amount of details as KDS and creates the same wide/deep soundstage. So what is this "level" in KDS/ADS which makes Naim ashamed? 

I'm much more about music rather than brand-name. If Linn builds a component which betters Naim (in my values) I shall buy it no matter of cost implied (I'm actually using LP12 which IS better than my Naim source). I remember I was soooo disappointed with KDS vs nDAC/XPS demo as I was pre-heated and really captured with KDS concept, simplicity, build quality, size, outfit. I have already imagined it in black finish on the top of my rack. But I'm playing guitar and I'm listening guitar and nDAC/XPS makes it so much better .... Sorry.

Why the focus now? Well, I love all the 500 series kit [particularly NAC and NAP] but things move on and having a rack full of boxes is getting less and less appealing to me, for numerous reasons, reinforced by seeing a single Linn box sitting so unnassuming on the next shelf along. Starting another new rack full of boxes for digital is a big definite no no. It has to be a one box solution and I am not even sure where I am going to put that!

Have you actually listened to the combination of kit I am comparing on this thread?

No, I have only listened for ADS-1, KDS and nDAC.

I have chimed in only because I saw your frustration on multi-box arrangements of Naim streamers -- which is not a big deal IMHO.

Let's get this down to the two-box streamer solution: say NDX+ 555PS.

You may ask a question -- is it possible to get the same quality sound with slim single-box solution?

The answer is: in some sonic departments you can, in others you can not. All musical elements which consume high energy transients will not play natural on small PS -- this is just a physical law. You have to juice energy form the wall outlet, accumulate it and keep it ready to swipe at any moment. That's what external massive PS can do better than Linn Dynamik PS.

And that's exactly what I hear with KDS - spacious, precise, but slow and relaxed.

I have Logitech Transporter -- excellent one-slim-box streamer. The sound through the analogue is close to ADS  -- and the same slow and relaxed. Now I use it as a digital streamer into my nDAC/XPS and enjoy the life. Naim DAC is much weightier in this regard. My Troika/Stageline/HiCap is also weightier.

So if you want to go for streamers and don't care about sonic character you are a lucky guy -- just go for ADS2. But if you prefer Naim energetic presentation then you better keep up with multi-box arrangement. Possibly wait until NDS+555PS will show up. Looking into the other brands with PRAT will not change the case: Wadia, dCS, Esoteric, MSB, MBL -- they are all bulky multi-box solutions.

Meanwhile the science and technology are moving on. Possibly the new nano-technologies will make a breakthrough in energy accumulation so that we shall see mini-capacitors with giant capacity. Then one can really build up a slim PS with high current output. But I'm not going to compromise my daily musical enjoyment while physicists are cooking the new electronics.

One comment:

Julian listened through a Linn system. IME inserting an ADS into an otherwise Naim system ( in my case 500/552) does not take the famous Naim PRaT away in the way that posts here comment.

I heard an NDX bare and on an XPS2 ( 282/2250.2 into Ovator S400s). Neither configuration set me alight. Since these are at roughly the same price point as the ADS2 this is a fair comparison.

If you are going to start adding NDACs and 555PS in then you have to compare against the KDS. There I disagree with AMA. A KDS in a NAIM system is a wonderful thing. and will be hard for Naim to beat.

regards

Geoff 

Hi Geoff

Hope you are enjoying yourself.

Of course, home demo is the only way and I have already had the offer.

AMA

You may be right, the design of the circuitry does need these power supplies to run optimally. However, if the circuit was re-designed it may not. Its all moot, I only want a one box source solution.

With this condition I'm afraid KDS (or ADS2) is the only option.

Hi, Geoff. Did you try KDS vs nDAC/XPS in A/B session?

I did it in Naim system. KDS is softer (which is especially pleasant on the old Red Books) but very relaxed, especially the bass is blurred and lowered comparing to the punchy nDAC/XPS.

Am I alone to hear this