Bryston BDA-1 vs Naim DAC

The M2Tech Young DAC is getting very good reviews, you might like to keep that in mind when choosing your DAC.

Totemphile,

Are you trying to make my life more complicated?!  Thanks for the suggestion.  I will check it out.

JB

No, easier. The Young DAC has a USB 2.0 port build in and comes with a USB A-B cable as standad. My understanding is that it pugs directly from your MacBook's USB port into the DAC, thereby doing away with the need for a Hiface or The Bridge. Way to go... Don't know the Bryston though...

Holy Cow!  I can't believe what is coming out of my system.  For the past few hours, I have been listening to iTunes/ATV(2)/Bryston BDA-1/XS.  OMG.  I have never heard sweeter music in my own home.  

I have come to a few conclusions:

(1) My XS is a very capable amp.  I do not need to upgrade my amp to get the sound I was looking for.  

(2) My speakers sound damn good!  I've given up any thoughts about upgrading them.

(3) It's a pretty good idea to try out gear besides Naim.  I haven't made any final decisions about which DAC, but this Bryston is a good value compared to the Naim.    I've been too locked in to the Naim system of things.   I will most likely audition the Naim DAC (if I can) to see if it's worth the extra moolah.

(4) I highly doubt I'm going to keep my CD5x.

You guys have to come over for a beer and a listen!  

JB

Congratulations JB Good, good to hear that above all this test has shown just how good the XS is and what your Arro are capable of. Nice outcome, if it provided assurance that you don't need to change anything about the heart and soul of your system. 

Where are you based, in the US? I am asking because you mention the Bryston to be good VFM in comparison with the nDAC. Funny thing is, in the UK the Bryston seems to be more expensive than the nDAC. 

Have look at what "What HiFi", the UK's leading hifi magazine, had to say about the Bryston and the nDAC. The Naim DAC might just surprise you even more...

http://www.whathifi.com/review/dac

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Bryston-BDA-1/

Totemphile,

Frankly I am floored with what I am hearing.  I never expected iTunes/ATV(2) + external DAC to sound this good.   I figured the Bryston would win over the DacMagic, but I was unprepared for just how much.   The "source first" principle is certainly true today.

This setup is so much better than my CD5x/FC2x, I am wondering if I have my Naim gear step up properly.  I'm definitely going to do some double checking.

At least in the US, the Bryston is quite a bit cheaper than the Naim DAC.   I would have enough left over for a different Naim upgrade.

I read all the online reviews for the Bryston this afternoon, including the "What HiFi" review.  Most were extremely positive.  But, regardless of the reviews, THIS is the sound I have been looking for.  To my old ears, my only nits might be wishing for a bit more air and detail in the high frequencies, and a wider soundstage.  While I have no doubt other DACS have their merits, I could easily stop with this one.  Definitely worth a try.  

My next experiments will be to feed the Bryston with:

(1) MacBook Pro/Optical 

(2) NAD C541/Coaxial

-- JB

JBGood -

I hope you will take what I say with a grain of salt, and if if you disagree, then by all means go with whatever your ears and instincts tell you!   First a few philosophical comments, then a quote from the new issue of Hi-Fi Choice...

I spent many years trying to reach audio nirvana though system matching of different manufacturers's components.   Even when I got to what I thought was a good heterogeneous setup, I found it very hard to not to wonder if their was a better combination!  It is only when I found the Naim sound, that I decided there was greater comfort in trusting in the best efforts, whenever possible, of that team.  After all, they are very talented, and very adept at making their components work well together (not to mention upgradable without complete swap-out).   Other than a TT, a PC music server and speakers, the rest of my setup is Naim, including their DAC.   And who knows, one day I might get to a 100% Naim setup! 

When I bought the DAC, my amp was the Nait XS, and before upgrading it, I added the XPS2 to the DAC, so I remember quite well how that box in that system changed my idea of what was possible with digital music replay.

Now, for a bit of devil's advocate.   In this month's Hi-Fi Choice, there is a review of the new Antelope Zodiac Plus dac.  A Bulgarian product, it is getting a lot of good hype on several forums right now.   After calling out the Naim DAC as the  "real competition" in this space, they go on to test the Zodiac vs. the BDA-1 using the Bryston BDP-1 transport.  They say...

"...This combination pulls out a staggering level of detail from a number of very familiar tracks -- harmonics, reverb and temporal subtleties are brought to the fore that usually remain hidden.   It does this better than Bryston's own DAC in truth, which seems a shade unsophisticated by comparison.  In part, this is because the highs are a lot smoother..." and so on.

My point is that there can be a big difference between infatuation and love, between short term tests and long term livability.   And so much of what we are able to appreciate in a new component is very dependent upon our frame of reference!   I would, frankly, expect any of a number of new generation DAC's to top your CD5X.   And, honestly, nothing against Bryston as a brand!   They have proven themselves as a pro audio supplier, and their 20 year warranty ought to be matched by Naim and all others!

So, that was my very long winded way of saying that I think while you would benefit by hearing other DAC's in comparison, my bet is that the Naim DAC would prove to be a best long-term partner for your Nait XS!   Worth the extra moolah?   That's up to you.  But I do encourage you to find a good dealer who will work with you, and loan you one!

Good luck in whatever you decide!

Hook

Hook,

Thanks for your detailed post.  Your comments are thought provoking.  

I am learning that it my be wise try different options.   For example, had I not auditioned the Bryston w/ my kit, I would not have known that a DAC alone can make this much difference.  What a joy!  Now that I know, I definitely intend on trying a few different DAC's.   My ears, probably like most folks on these forums, are sensitive to differences in audio- and I definitely have my preferences.  If the Naim DAC is the most pleasing to my ears, it will most likely be the winner.

When I upgrade, I do it to bring the music enjoyment to another level.   I like to get lost and involved in my music.  I appreciate hearing the music... and not the HIFI.  A good DAC clearly is capable of moving a kit in this direction.   To those who have not yet listened to some good DAC's, I highly recommend it!  

With the DAC alone, I am getting a sig upgrade in SQ with my existing system.  Now, I just have to decide if I'm going to pull out my pocketbook after the weekend

Regards,

JB

Guys I could use your help.   In order to audition the Bryston (while I have it) properly, I would like to hear what it sounds like when feeding it the best possible source material currently in my arsenal.  

My source options include:

(1) NAD C541 coaxial out to the Bryston.

(2) iTunes (Apple Lossless)/ATV/optical out to the Bryson

(3) MacBook Pro (Apple Lossless) directly to the Bryson.  I picked up an inexpensive optical cable with miniplug adaptor yesterday.  

I am currently using iTunes, but I'm fine to try different software this weekend for my demo purpose- as long as I don't have to take a college course and hire an engineer to make it work!  

Can somebody boil things down for me a bit?  I want to hear what the DAC is capable of.

Thanks.

JB

Maybe Bryston should  be able to tell you the best way for you to drive their product - and enquiring would give you some measure of the support you are likely to get.

Some manufacturers do have very good guides to computer audio; try googling "dcs guide to computer audio" for one such. 

likesmusic,

Thanks for the comments.  The "dcs guide to computer audio" is very well written.  Good resource, indeed.  

JB

What a fantastic weekend of listening.  The BDA-1 is easy to recommend.  Unfortunately, I also discovered HIRES files as well.  I downloaded a few albums from HDTracks, including some tracks I am familiar with from my CD collection.  Oh dear, this is going to get expensive. 

Can any Naim folks around here comment on choosing between Bryston BDA-1 and Naim DAC?  I will, if/when I have the opportunity, demo the Naim for myself.  But, in the meantime, any veteran ears do the comparison already??  Your impressions?

JB

JB, it seems no one has put his hands on both BDA-1 and nDAC so far.

If you can do this -- pls share your experience.  

Keep in mind that beating CD5X is not a big deal today.

I owned CD5X/HiCap2 for quite a long time but nDAC takes over CD5X/HC2 at a bigger margin than CD5X/HC2 over iPod player.

On the other hand you may wish retrofitting CD5X for the digital transport to partner with nDAC or BDA-1. AFAIK it should be available at small cost through the local Naim dealer. 

Ask your dealer for nDAC/XPS demo as well -- just for the reference  

All:

I went through similar process earlier this year, switching out a 5x/fc2:

Old set-up: 5x/fc2 + nait 5i

New set-up: Squeezebox Touch + nDac +nait 5i + ipad (as remote) + music in FLAC stored in NAS

I would say I am very happy with my new setup. I won't go as far as saying my new set-up is much better than 5x/fc2.  I would, however, say I get to listen to a lot more music.  Once music is digitized, it became so easy to find them.  Additionally, the new setup allows a slightly more "future resistant" to my potential upgrades (e.g. ndx or likes in exchange for the squeezebox, xps for nDAC, etc)

Other DACs I have listened to: Benchmark USB version, Bryston, Wryed4Sound 1.  They are all very good and earn their own merits. (e.g. Benchmark has a larger soundstage, more details, but not as musical as Naim).  Ultimately, I stick with the nDAC for very simple reasons - Naim is more musical than all of them (despite many shortcomings) and musical is one thing that can keep me listen to my music over and over again.

At the end of the day, I think you need to think about what trade-offs you are taking.. are you trying to listen to the music or the details of a recording? How much would you trade quality for convenience? What kind of "sound" makes you excited?

Warpeon,

Good post.  Thanks for your comments. These choices really make one think and identify main goals.  As much as I love the convenience of streaming a digital collection, I would not do this at the sacrifice of SQ.  Thank goodness these aren't either/or decisions!  

Now that I have experienced a source that betters my CD5x/FC2x, I am selling my CDP and investing my moolah in other parts of the system.  

Glad you are enjoying your Naim DAC.  Would you mind describing in what way you found it more "musical"?  I look forward to giving it an extended audition.

Ultimately, I will picking the DAC that brings the most enjoyment as I listen.   

JB

JB,

I don't know how to best quantify "musical" - only thing I could say is that my feet taps more often with the nDAC.

Interesting how you found the Bryston better than 5x/fc2.  I auditioned the Bryston DAC at the dealer and I didn't feel I had a connection with it.  If you live in the US, I would strongly suggest you try Benchmark.  I actually liked this DAC quite a bit and almost bought it.

Cheers,

Edwin

Edwin,

I first listened to the Bryston BDA-1 at a dealer.  A Bryston integrated, with a pair of Totem Staffs.   I brought along my CA DacMagic for comparison.  To my ears, the Bryston easily won.   But my in-store audition did not romance me.  I have listened to the Staffs in the past-  I prefer the Arros.  

When I used the BDA-1 in my home system with my XS and Totem Arros, I found the combination to be absolutely wonderful using a variety of sources.  I preferred the Bryston over CD5x/FC2x by more than a small margin.  

I am planning on auditioning a few more DAC's before making my decision.  Still waiting to hear back from my local Naim dealer.  The Benchmark is also on my short-list.  Which model Benchmark DAC did you come close to buying?

JB 

I have to say that my nDAC is not, to my ears, as good as the CD5x / HC2. The best I've got out of the nDAC is via USB stick but it still falls short and it's not at all user friendly.

Not had much luck getting a demo of a Uniti Serve or NDX to see if either is worth while. 

Regards,

Huw

I cannot comment on the sound of the Bryston, but a gentleman I know who repairs audio equipment and is quite talented, said that Bryston is the best built equipment he has ever seen.

Your nDAC must be faulty. I owned CD5X/HC2 for quite a long time and when I demoed nDAC it was way better in all sonic departments. Never looked back. I also checked it against CDX2 and HDX -- nDAC was much better again. Easy to identify the winner as nDAC outperforms the rivals by quite a margin.

Your wrong. The DAC is fine and it's not as good. You make it sound as if there is some significant difference. It gets quite close with USB but it's a long way off through a squeezebox or  Mac.

You can check the quality of your nDAC piece with following milestone facts:

nDAC offers more spacious soundstage (both in width and depth), the resolution is much higher than CD5X/HC, the mid transients and bass punch is WAY better than CD5X/HC2.

The only negative point of bare nDAC is that it sounds a bit brighter than CD5X/HC2 -- similar to CDX2 in presentation. I always preferred CD5X/HC over CDX2 due to a warmer presentation of the former. But in sheer hi-fi terms CDX2 was always a bit better on all tests.

When adding XPS to nDAC the noise floor drops down, the presentation gets much softer (softer than CD5X/HC2 but not as soft as CDS3 or KDS or MBL), microdetails and microtransients pronounce even better. The bass punch becomes mindblowing -- the best I heard so far.

Seconded

When it comes to brightness CDX2 is still a bit ahead of nDAC. IME nDAC (with/without XPS) is a bit warmer than CDX2.

agreed.

Just to elaborate my experience a bit more:

nDAC and 5x/fc2 is slightly different (some personal preference) but the raw nDAC (without a naim streamer and/or XPS) could not beat 5x/fc2 hands down in all dimension (with a 5xs as a transport may be better than 5x/fc2, but cost of that is also twice that). nDAC is more detailed but slightly less musical and brighter (in my setup).  However, still maintaining the Naim signature timing and rhythmic characters of music presentation.  I believe the trade-offs made reflects the Naim sound evolution (from my experience, e.g. listening to X2 and X2.2). 

XPS does wonders to nDAC - this leaves room for future upgrade, which few other DAC provides such option and synergies with Naim amplification.

Digital cable used can make a huge difference - Not many users had shared their experiences in this aspect.  At the dealer site, I've tried the audioquest optilink 5 vs. naim DC1. Based on a squeezebox streamer, I am indifferent to either (again some trade-offs in different areas).  The gains achieved is most likely from the squeezebox streamer generating quite a bit of noise internally and the optical cable was able to isolate it (on top of the fact that DC1 is created for BNC connection not RCA). When I was visiting New York City, one of the Naim dealers highly recommended the digital cables made by Transparent.  They claimed Transparent beat DC1 in all aspects.  I would believe there might be some grounds to this because DC1 was developed for DVDs. I ended up with a digital cable made by Vitus (a ~US$ 2,000 digital cable, but bought at the price of DC1 - changing distributor in HK so the previous distributor offers huge discount to get rid of the old stock.  I bought it just because it appeared to be a steal).  I find this to be satisfactory to-date, but wanted to try others to see if I can get better results.  Anyone can share their experience?

Squeezebox is a steal for its price ~US$ 250 (but absolutely require some software modification done by a gentleman named Soundcheck). My next step is to add a better PSU for the squeezebox.

I think streaming / Digital Music is so new that few has tried enough combination to optimize the setup; in addition to presenting music in a slightly different manner from CDs, which may be how the recording was supposed to sound but we've been trained to how CDs sounds for the past 20+ years.  However, it is a step forward to accessing music easily and hi res; something CD cannot offer.

Just my 2 cents.