New to AV have chance of AV2 into Naim stereo .. advice appreciated

The AV2 is a great processor. As far as setting up a surround sound system based on an AV2 you can do no better than Dungassin's posting on the subject -

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/2833539985312821

Many thanks for the replies

Just what I was looking for.

Paul

Back in the '70's / early 80's putting any speakers additional to the main stereo pair in the room was considered totally unacceptable. Wisdom had it that doing so would destroy the accurate rendition of pitch from the stereo pair, and thus completely ruin the music. Single speaker dem rooms were mandatory at serious hi-fi dealers. Indeed even a TV set,telephone or digital watch in the room was considered to totally ruin the music - demonstrations were even carried out at shows/dealers to "prove" this. It seems the laws of physics have changed from those times, as clearly no ill-effects on the music are now apparent from such inclusions. Or perhaps modern equipment design has engineered out such tendencies? Or perhaps it was just all complete nonsense. I have never seen an explanation, good or bad, of why this "about turn" has happened.

Peter  

I suspect option C (complete nonsense) is closest to the truth. The clue is in the bit about the telephone or digital watch.

David,

I'm sure you're right. For those of us who have been around long enough, it's curious to note the changing views and dogmas that permeate the hi-fi world. What is interesting is that the "single pair of speakers in the room" view was accepted in those days as an absolute truth by those of us who worshipped at the church of Linn/Naim (ie.flat-earthers). Superficially convincing explanations for the phenomenon were given by the likes of respected reviewers at the time. I always felt that these were somewhat "pseudo-scientific" - they did not really stand up to close analysis, or even common-sense. Gradually the dogma faded, without any discussion as to why. Suddenly it was OK to have your TV in the same room as your hi-fi system, and we were even encouraged to do so in order to route TV sound through the hi-fi. Absolute heresy back in the '70's - it would then have been considered an offence punishable by a lifetime ban on owning quality hi-fi by a Linn/Naim dealer! Another example - the belief that was perpetrated by some manufacturers and reviewers that CD was inherently incapable of producing a musical performance when it was first introduced. Only analogue sources could ever sound musical - it was the laws of physics/psycho-acoustics. Again this has in the fullness of time been proven to be utter nonsense. There are now plenty of superbly musical CD players and other digital sources to be found. It all makes one wonder. How much of what we blindly accept as "truth" today, eg.the need for specialised and extremely expensive equipment supports, mains cables etc. will simply crumble in the future? How much real science is going on with these things, and how much pseudo-science? Of course one can listen and judge for oneself, but I would suggest that a perceived improvement may not always be as a result of the factors suggested. The real situation may be far more complex and not properly understood yet. Perhaps audio-enthusiasts in another 30 or 40 years time will look back in amusement at the present pre-occupation with equipment racks, mains cables, interconnects and such like. Perhaps more fundamental issues will have been addressed by then, making these things totally redundant.

Peter

Peter,

I agree with all of that.

Certainly not, It's a relatively simple demo take a pair of decent stereo speakers and play some music through them. Take another pair of speaker NOT PLUGGED IN and place them next to each other so drivers are facing towards you then turn the speakers so they face each other with NO gap. The sound does perceptibly change. Put the speakers behind you so you can't see them and get others to move them so you don't know and see if you can see a difference, If using 2 way medium size speakers the difference is there. Good v Bad, Better or Worse that's up to you do decide. Anything that resonates, absorbs or reflects in a room (i.e. everything will influence it's sonic characteristics) As far as digital watches go I'm not convinced but extra speakers do make a difference, however the ability to oscillate is I believe reduced when they are in circuit i.e driven by an amp even if it's sending 0 as any vibration creates current that the amp resists to keep it at say 0.  

For most of us, whether it makes a difference or not is of little importance.  Most of us don't live in houses big enough to allow for separate listening room for hifi.  After all kids/wife's needs are important too, and they will probably want a TV in the living room for communal activities.

For those of us who use AV systems ... well ... unless you get a projector or a monitor, then your TV will have built-in speakers, so unless you open them up and remove them ...?

For what it's worth, I've tried it in my study with just front speakers, and gradually adding the other speakers (and speaker containing units) without actually switching on the amps that drive them (except, of course, the 282/HiCap/250 supplying the front channels).  Differences are minimal, and quickly forgotten.  A few years ago I tried the same in with the living room's active system, after redecorating, and before moving the TV back in - although the telephone was still in situ.  Again, not enough difference to be worth the hassle of not having a TV in there.  Perhaps I'm just lucky. 

PD,

If you get the chance to buy an AV2 at a good price I would.

It is a great audio processor.

I use one, and have it in my main listening room, and i've never had better stereo - despite having an extra three speakers.

M

Peter,

Like you I remember when all this was being discussed the first time around. I certainly agreed that:

 - you shouldn't compare speakers via the 'comparitors' that were generally used in the 70's/ early 80's.

 - a dedicated demo room was an ideal to aspire to.

More than one set of speakers? Avoid having a phone in your listening room?

I was never 'sold' on either of these. There are a bucketful of ways you can affect the SQ of a room, over and above having extra speakers.

These discussions seemed to hit the nadir to me with Peter Belt.

Personally I have always been a great believer in trying something yourself.

I am sure that Stuart's example above is a good reason to avoid listening to a demo of a bank of speakers, which was a standard way in the days of comparitors.

There are many ways in which demos can be rigged.

M

I agree that anything placed in the listening room will have some affect on the sound. However, the concept of additional speakers resonating along with the main pair, thus destroying pitch/timing etc. strikes me as complete nonsense. The amount of acoustic energy that would need to be transferred to the additional speaker drive units/cabinets in order for them to resonate at an amplitude that would actually create any sound output from them would need to be huge. The volume level from the main pair would need to be so high to achieve this that if any sound were produced then it would be many orders of magnitude below this level and would be insignificant. Try an experiment - put an additional speaker in your listeng room (eg. a portable radio), play some loud music on your main system and place your ear close to the extra speaker. Hear anything from it? I thought not!

Much nonsense and "pseudo-scientific" reasoning is carelessly strew around the world of hi-fi, often by those who have absolutely no scientific training at all, and who evidently have a poor grasp of the relevant scientific principles. It is this kind of thing that frequently creates a "loonatic" image of hi-fi enthusiasts. Some of this reasoning and the associated beliefs and practices amount to nothing more than modern-day witchcraft or sorcery! I would suggest that anyone who claims that aligning the slots in the screw heads inside mains plugs produces any difference in the sound of their system is ripe for burning at the stake, or at least for a spell of enforced psychiatric treatment!

Peter

Naim have found that additional speakers in the room do introduce some compromise.  I've tested this in the demo room at the factory, and it's one reason why when doing speaker comparisons, only one set is usually inside the listening room, while the others are kept outside in the hall.  The difference can vary from almost imperceptible to profound, depending very much on the extra speakers and where they're placed.

In theory this causes a problem with a multi-speaker system which is also used for 2 channel stereo.  However, so long as the surround &/or centre speakers are connected to an amp which is powered up then the problem is reduced considerably.  Of course, just having a centre speaker between the main 2 channel speakers brings other issues, my own preference being to have nothing at all between the speakers, if possible.

The bottom line; everything in hifi reproduction is a compromise of sorts.  The most important thing is that you need to be able to live with the system in such a way as it doesn't impose so much restriction on your life or home that the pleasure is lost. 

Crikey

Thanks to all those who've taken the time to reply.

right now I'm planning to use a couple of old 135's to power the rears, was thinking of simply making a couple of "overcoats" to put over them if the consensus was negative but from all I see on here it hardly looks like it will be necessary.

Bit intrigued by the leaving the rear amp on thing, would have assumed the opposite but a nice and easy thing to check ON or OFF

Will be a few weeks before I have the room finished but I'll report back once it's all up and running.

And thanks again for all the input.

Paul