NDS SQ after 4.3 Firmware Upgrade

Hi Chag -

Did not notice much of a difference in sound quality after upgrading my NDS to 4.3. An improvement may be there, but it just didn't make a strong impression on me (unlike my demo of the SL DIN5 versus HiLine). I can say for sure that it was not a step backwards though.

DSD is of minor interest to me. I have a few dozen needle drops in DSD128, so I will need to down sample them in order to stream. I think I may also have to upgrade Asset UPNP.  But I am no rush, as I already have 24/88.2 FLAC conversions that sound fine to my ears.

Lastly, the 4.3 upgrade was very straight forward. I didn't watch the clock, but it felt like no more than 30 minutes from start to end.

Good luck!

Hook

I haven't noticed a difference. It sounds superb, same as always and so far as I can tell, same as it did before. DSD playback still has audible artifacts but they are minimal and will be banished soon.

Thank you Hook, Harry.

What would you mean by artifacts soon to be banished?

Chag -

Chag, there can be soft clicks between tracks, I understand the extent of these is based on how well the DSD album has been originally mastered. Naim are intending to introduce enhancements in their code to iron out these  mastering imperfections further, so that the clicks should effectively disappear.

Simon

Well to me there is quiet a big difference in the sound presentation and quality. It is an improvement in the sense of you tend to ear more. The upper is more projective than before. Some details appear and the global scene is improved. On the other hand, to my taste, it makes the system more tiring and edgy than before. The medium is less complex than before - somehow - less music than before. It is less "analogic" to the point to sound more like a "X" serie but with the detail of the "S" serie.

I would even purpose the idea than it tend to sound like focal sound instead of Naim sound.

I hope they will do something for the next update !

Ye, i know i am alone but anyway, i can share my opinion.

Cheers everybody.

Ikoun, I too notice quite a big difference in the sound presentation and quality. I agree with your findings regarding extra detail and improvement in "global scene" - meaning to me a more expansive and clearly defined sound. The bass definition seems better to me - more rounded and more kick.

However, to my taste, my system sounds better as a result! It sounds more satisfying at lower volume levels and I can listen at higher volume levels with less fatigue. All this via 'humble 202/200' though. 

Jon

Even on my humble SU there has been a step forward in sound quality. I can't put my finger on it, but it just sounds better. I'm part of the beta group and remarked during the development of this release that quality was much improved. Naim wouldn't turn my SU into an NDS though, even when I asked nicely. 

I can't say I've noticed a material improvement in PCM material, but certainly no degradation. I am pleasently surprised by the handful of DSD albums I've purchased to try out during the beta. In my mind, the jury is still out whether this is due to the DSD format itself, or whether the mastering and a relatively straight through process, with no PCM domain post production meddling, is the key.

Dave 

Clicks can sometimes be heard between tracks when playing back DSD albums. They are faint and don't seem to be causing a lot of angst with users but they will be addressed in future FW update(s).

If SQ improvement of NDS is not as obvious as for NDX, and if artifacts are not yet banished, how does DSD with NDS (or with NDX for that matter) compare to DSD with Hugo?

Some refer on another thread, to the original NDS firmware still being best. I haven't updated since purchase in March 2013. I now start to wonder if I really should. There is no coming back on a firmware update.

Chag - 

Anyway -> major update

BBC streaming in MP3 "High def" 320 Kbp loooool and only in UK looool

Spotify streaming "High Quality" 320 Kbp looooool and to pay for such a service  looooool

At least for such a pricey machine i find it ridiculous.

So for the Naim staff, we should continue spending 8k £ for a source to listen to MP3

I do not get it.

If its ability to play crap quality stuff does not inhibit its development and present/ongoing ability to play stuff of high quality, where's the harm? I'm not interested in streaming subscription services or iRadio but plenty are. Ditto DSD. Naim have been working on both ends of the resolution spectrum. 

Naim have no control or influence over the way BBC choose to distribute its services !!!

Also the BBC "HD" is 48kHz 339kbs - compared to the other highest quality web radio MP3 & AAC services which are 44.1kHz 320kbs - the BBC so called HD stream is only HD in someone's imagination.

You might have a point about high quality streaming,  assuming www streaming is interesting to you. Personally I prefer to get the best quality audio such as only 24/96++ & DSD can bring.

I am still confusEd and did not yet upgrade. I see some reports on more detail on the nds which would be great, some people seem to be indifferent (apparently no perceived benefit) and some are talking about the dsd issues. Hope still to see more reports before I make the upgrade.

I know thta but these abilities were the already in the beginning. DSD was the "upgrade" but they should have worn people that the render would change. If somebody buy a box, he buy the sound with it. If the sound change (better or not is not the point as it is really personnal) it is like you do not have what you paid for.

@ Mike-B You are absolutely right, people buying NDS are looking much more for best quality audio with 24/96 and DSD can bring than any streaming 320Kbs

@Bert : If you like your actual sound. Do not install it. If you would lik a change , then you will get something definitely new - but you might like it less or more ...

Cheers

thanks for the tip, I like my sound would however be happy with some more detail if it would be offered....

Hi Bert,  I question your logic,  why not update (note I did not call it upgrade)

The SQ changes are there & they seem to make most people happy,  but others not.  I question why those not happy are so minded,  personally I have yet to be convinced of any of their reasons.

Regarding DSD,  it really is something different & I amongst many have been very pleased. Is that caused by DSD (.dsf) as a format  or is it because the original recordings made in DSD were made differently or with more care & more focus on end product quality that is true to the original & natural sound,  I don't know.  But whatever if I were you I would go for it - you are missing something.  & finally we would all value your opinion on it.

hi all

previous posters (mike-B) are quite correct. Naim have enabled the BBC streams to playback, however the geographical restrictions are not Naim imposed, but implemented at the BBC end, due to licensing restrictions.

Trevor

This did piss me off at the time. I bought one of the first production NDSs because it sounded like a perfect streamer which had been made just for my ears, only to have it "downgraded" by the first FW update. But in the longer term the presentation of the NDS has, by my and Helen's ears, improved overall. And to be fair, it's never sounded awful, just not perfectly pitched for my ears on some occasions. Not presently. I think it now sounds the best it ever has.

I am greatly relieved to be in an era where you don't always have to buy the latest version to experience some of the development benefits, or send it back for a retrofit. The downside is that changes may not be to your liking. One does have the option of sticking. In the case of the NDS, for the first year or so of production I wished I had stuck to the launch FW but in the full term I'm glad I didn't.

I agree.  My NDS sounds the best it ever has. Zero complaints!  And my UPnP network stuff has remained 100% reliable for many many months now; not a single reboot/reset/music-stops-suddenly issue.

And I'm pleased that there remains an 'upgrade path' as Naim add more functionality.  I too would like more more more, faster faster faster.  But I can listen to my library of lossless redbook and hi res music, it sounds the best it ever has, and is accessible at my fingertips on my iPad and iPhone. And the same library is available in another room on my lil Qute2.   I'm a "glass half full" kinda guy I guess.  In reality, for me, it's 95% full.  I do not intend to replace my core library of 100's of cd's with DSD versions (that are merely converted from PCM anyway), nor am I longing for lossless internet streaming (but I'd do a 3-month trial just to see, definitely).

All right I am updating. I however just realized that I was still with version 3.17. I am assuming I missed 3.21 and 3.22. Just out of curiosity could anybody remind me what have been the different updates applicable to NDS what are the primary functionalities brought with each update?

Many thanks.

Chag -

Naim's website might be of help:  https://www.naimaudio.com/updates

Unfortunately not. This is why I was asking.   

Chag -

Hey Chag, why don't you just upgrade to 4.3 ???

If the details of what went on during the series 3 stuff progression is still bugging you afterwards,  then get back to it later.