Mac Mini as uPNP server ...and renderer?

Hi Innocent

I too have tried Audirvana and pitted it against my NDX. However my conclusion is different to yours i have to say. i find Audirvana a lot more clearer than my NDX, although firmware 4.3 has helped to close the gap.

However i do find Audirvana too polite for my tastes, its all a bit hifi and a little light but this maybe just in my system.

One thing i would advise is that you read the instructions in the Audirvana manual and have a look at the end around page 38 which tells you how to put your DAC on its own USB hub. It makes quite a difference.

Graeme

Remember the Hugo has no electrical noise filtering on it's USB input, so if your USB sourve is electrically nosy, then this noise will affect the Hugo performance. Some use a USB isolator here to improve performance. Computers are inherently noisy devices.

Simon

I believe Rob Watts has said elsewhere that the optical inout of the Hugh sounds best. The USB inputs aren't galvanically isolated and are thus susceptible to noise. You can galvanically isolate the standard def USB input using an Olimex isolator or the like, but that will restrict it to 24/48. Also, to make a fair comparison, only one source should be plugged into the Hugo at once - noise will enter via any non-optical inout whether it is in use or not. So maybe to be sure to be sure you might want to repeat your tests connecting only one source at a time, and using a galvanic isolator on the USB input, (Or get a TT.)

I hadn't thought this would make a difference, i have both USB and Coax (NDX) connected at the same time, i will give this a try today. Also i'm waiting for my TT to arrive, hopefully this week. Will be interesting to hear if there is any difference between this and Hugo.

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

Your cited experience was among those that gave me some expectation that Audirvana might surpass My ND5XS, so I welcome your thoughts.

I did set up following the manual's guidance for best SQ - checking now, usb is showing dedicated (USB Hi-speed Bus > Hub > Hugo). Sysoptimiser: Extreme! disabled Spotlight, Time Machine and detection of i-devices on usb. Integer mode is enabled (mode 1). Sample rate conversion: iZotope, forced up sampling: none. Nothing else connected to the MM, which is running headless. Only other software is VNC.

Thanks for response Simon. Whilst as you observe some people do use a usb isolator,  others seem to have no problem despite no doing so. With mine, nothing else at all is connected to the Mac Mini, and the Hugo is on a dedicated usb bus.

For reference, I'm using the USB cable supplied with the Hugo.

Your settings appear to be the same as mine although i have not implemented the Sysoptimiser setting.

mine is also a 2012 with SSD so should not be any difference there. the only thing i have changed is the apple power lead with a decent IEC power lead, by using an IEC to figure 8 adaptor. £3 quid of amazon.

Hey maybe you have a one off ND5 that beats an NDX

Hmm then again maybe i have a poor NDX

Serioulsy though i'm unsure why your not getting a clearer sound from the Mini as this is the first thing that struck me about using the Mini.

Graeme

Thanks for the observations. if an isolator will limit the resolution then it would limit the potential, so I'm not sure if it's would be worth pursuing - and others seem to have no problem without.

Re optical input, I haven't tried because others report great performance through USB, and at the moment I havent a cable, though maybe it is worth trying. However I can certainly try the individual source plugging. 

In my experience, the ferrite choked and galvanically isolated SPDIF feed from my NDX into my Hugo is sublime. Toslink is a little way  behind, but not really in the same league, but that might be to do with the sources. But so far for me USB has been good rather than exceptional, and that's using iPad and MacBook Pro as sources... (All battery powered)

Therefore I try and use the NDX as the digital hub for the Hugo via SPDIF for music, but do have a direct fibre feed to the Hugo from the SkySTB/AppleTV for film/sport/TV/web video streaming

Some thoughts/suggestions :

Try switching off Wifi, Bluetooth, and Infra Red services on the Mac Mini when using it as either UPNP server.  When using the Mini as a USB transport, try using a wired Ethernet connection and switch off Wifi services as well as Bluetooth and Infra Red.

I use a Mini with Audirvana and a V1.  Even though the V1 is galvancially isolated, I did notice some marginal improvements by doing all of the above.

Also, try using optical rather than electrical SPDIF on the Mini and Hugo with Audirvana.  The Mini has a relatively low noise optical connection according experiences from other members on this forum.

HTH

Jude

Hi Simon, do you ferrite choke both ends of the SPDIF coax lead?

Hi, no, just use a choke around the connector as it enters the Hugo. The choke also nicely stabilises the Hugo box to stop a tendency for it to tip up.

Simon

Thanks for the quick reply, I have a spare choke i will give this a go this afternoon.

cheers Sean

I've had a hunt and found there was actually a suitable optical cable in the Hugo box, so I wil try thaT. Hugo instructions suggest that USB is the highest quality of the inputs, but I think that's because it offers 384khz vs optical 192 max, but as I don't have anything higher than 192, and wonder if anything of significance to me will appear, it is probably irrelevant.

bluetooth was on, so now it's set up and control only via VNC I have turned off. When I foind out how to turn off IR I will!

BTW, I was using a choke on the usb cable, as I always do on any signal cable coming from a computer.  Now I havent tried without - perhaps I should.

Will try these options. But an ear infection and dulled hearing might delay any proper assessments...

IR can be turned off in Preferences > Security and Privacy, if using Mavericks or Yosemite.

Jude

Thanks, Jude, will try that too.

And also for ref all my systems are on sired network, with a network separate switch for the music systems, located close.

Regardless of which of the 4 USB ports I use on my new Mac mini, the usb device tree seems to show that my Hugo is sharing the port with IR Receiver (though I have disable as per post from Jude), BRCM20702 hub (whatever that is) and Bluetooth Host Controler (Bluetooth not enabled). All under usb 3.0 Hi-Speed Bus. The only other bus displayed in the tree is USB 3.0 SuperSpeed Bus which has nothing assigned to it.  Is there something I need to do to get the Hugo on a bus on its own!

Thanks

Hugh

HughCraig,

The only thing I can suggest is re starting the Mini and/or repairing permissions from Disk Utility (reboot whilst holding down Cmmand and R).

@Innocent Bystander (and others interested), In the end as @Wat eludes to, the stuff mentioned on this thread are relatively Minor tweaks. So, each of us will end up liking one sound signature or another of the Hugo/V1 etc., streamers, transport, player combos regardless.

Jude

you might think about two improvements for the mm that i use:

1. USB Regen - from UpTone Audio, is a new, inexpensive item that solve the USB isolation/power issues.

2. Linear Power Supply kit for Mac Mini  als from UpTone Audio, is like a PowerLine for the Mac Mini - there is a huge difference in SQ in my experience from using this.

I have the same set up except that I have a SuperUniti - so I also use an Audiophilleo 1 with pure power to do USB / SPDIF conversion.

There is a very interesting community over at Computeraudiophile.com with lots of discussion on optimizing music servers.  They've even started to discover Naim.

Sorry to revive and slightly hijack this thread: I am looking for a simple and reliable UPnP server software for my MacMini/SSD (given that my previous Playback is not supported any more, and that there is still no full-SSD naim server available). I could only find years-old threads on UPnP software here on the forum...

I just want to 'pull' the music using the NDS interface, and I don't want to use the mac interface for playback (I don't like 2 remotes). Do I see it right that Asset UPnP is the top recommendation, please? Here are some contenders which I know little about:

- Amarra

- Audirvana

- JRiver media center 

- Decibel

- Pure music

Thanks for your help,

Best,

Stefan

Hi Stefan,

 I think you are right that Asset is the most effective.  I also believe that Minimserver and Plex are possibilities.  

The other software you have listed are players without UPNP serving features.  Your NDS and Naim app will do what this software does in the context of your use case.

Jude

J River does what you want well, as does Asset suggested above.  I've used both plus some others in the past and the best one I found was Asset.  The others listed won't do what you need them to do although they would sound very good on your mac if used in a different way

Great, this helps a lot, folks!

Thus Asset UPnP is remains my first choice for now, but I'll also checkout J River MC and MinimServer - and not any of the (presumably more powerful) other software without UPnP-service.

Cheers,

Stefan

I put on Serviio, and it works perfectly as a uPNP server to my ND5XS, far better than either Twonky  or Logitech Media Server were on my Zyxel NAS. It's free so no loss in trying.