Let's call a spade a spade.

I'm not an apologist for it, but it is only a PITA for twenty minutes about twice a year. Not the end of the world, especially as its application often gives access to useful new functionality. I shall happily give that twenty minutes if the next update gives me access to 24 bit streaming from, say, Qobuz.

Do we feel a little frustrated? 

Yes, it is a royal pain at un unspeakable place. It is the technologists solution for the high technology product. It is interesting to think about. I cannot speak for every other high end product out there, I believe Deviate is rather the exception than the standard, but I don't think that most high end products are designed with user upgrade in mind. Rather, I think most companies, like Naim, are depending on the service of their dealer network. The companies that focus on effortless upgrades are the ones that are shoved over the counter in boxes with hardly any after ales.

However, if every upgrade yields the results I am getting now, I am very much willing to endure this process over and over again. It really is like I have a whole new product. The more I listen, the more I discover new things.

I'm not an apologist, I'm a very happy music lover.

I've been working with the beta team & having updated many more times than most I do not consider it to be a PITA - in fact I look forward to it.  

From the user perspective it could be better.

However, there are sound engineering reasons why it's the way it is.

During the first update I did, I would have agreed with you. Then I re-read the instructions, and followed them to the letter. It wasn't hard, and I've never had any trouble with it since. It takes maybe half an hour, most of which is spent drinking tea. I don't have a problem with that.

I must confess that I hate most upgrade processes, and am always apprehensive about it. However, compared to, say, a map update for a Garmin, the Naim process is a cake walk!

I prefer the way it works on a mu-so for sure, but I agree with others that I don't find it that big a deal. 

It seems rather simple to me.

1. Download software.

2. Connect laptop to back of player via usb cable.

3. Run software.

--wait about 5-10 minutes total--

4. done

I've done this NUMEROUS times with both my Qute2 and NDS. (Numerous, as I beta test as well.)  The hardest part is pulling the Qute out of its rack to connect the usb cable.  I really should just leave it connected.  The NDS sits atop Fraim, so it's easy to get back behind it.

This doesn't seem painful to me.  At all.

24 minutes total for most recent beta.  It gave me time to light the charcoal grill, as it (the update, not the grill) runs unattended.

  wot no ethernet !!!! 

2. Connect laptop to back of player via usb cable.

3. Connect laptop to back of player via ethernet cable, or (for me) into switch port, or into router port  

I agree it is a PITA using products with the old RS232, but seems to work well with mini-USB. I used to have an Early NDS with the former and it was a nightmare. I had to remove the screws on the lead because they prevented connection (male to male) and I then had nightmares trying to get the PC to see the IP address of the NDS. and it did find it the update would be impossibly slow. In the end it bricked and had to be sent back to Salisbury. It then bricked again on the next update.

No problems so far with the mini-USB.

Keith

I tend to dread these sort of things and the first time took me an hour to update my NDX including locating drivers etc. which was a proper PITA. I don't have an issue with it any more, in fact its almost an event to look forward to like putting on vinyl, with a reward at the end. My sonos updates by comparison are usually a complete non event - in both hassle and benefits.

Would I prefer the NDX to update automatically? - Of course!

Mike,

Bart's probably using WiFi for the Ethernet connection to the laptop - I know some people do, even if Bart doesn't and just forgot the cable connection.  It's not what I'd do, but if you have a fairly benign WiFi environment and a reliable WiFi router then it'll work.

I MUCH prefer the reliability of having wired Ethernet to both the computer and the streamer to avoid issued when doing this, but with the wind in the right direction WiFi will work.

Incidentally I didn't have to put the Ethernet connection in either - I used my Desktop PC and the Ethernet connection was already in place; it's how I get music files onto my NAS.

  It was just a gentle leg pull Huge,  but if it hits a nerve, no harm done.

In my previous life we used to do software upgrades over all sorts of wires, cell phone & even satellite,  but firmware - no way jose !!!!

I've tried the Naim firmware over wireless just once to see how it works - some laptops don't have an ethernet port -  but once is enough for me.  

I have watched the down/upload speed graph with albums into NAS over wifi vs ethernet - up & down rocky mountain variations vs straight line rock steady

- case closed IMO.  

I agree with most of the people here who have posted on this topic. Yes it is a PITA and no it doesn't bother me having to do it. But then I am an IT professional and have my laptop to hand.

It does seem strange to me though that a company who produces a product such as UnitiServe which lets be honest is used mainly to avoid all that messy ripping on the laptop or PC, setting up and configuring a NAS and uPnP server, copying files across, etc. then insists on such a 'technical' update procedure.

I'm a pragmatist, things are what they are, it just seems to me to be a contradiction.

I could . . but has always worked fine over the home wifi so I've not been bothering.  On my own head be it! 

I could . . but has always worked fine over the home wifi so I've not been bothering.  On my own head be it! 

 I refer the 'onerable forum'ite to my previous post

I have watched the down/upload speed graph with albums into NAS over wifi vs ethernet - up & down rocky mountain variations vs straight line rock steady

- case closed IMO.

As I said previously there are good technical reasons for the choice.

The reasons are mainly to do with circuit isolation between digital signal, analogue signal and digital control circuits.  The necessary circuitry to update as a single process would compromise this isolation at playback time (as it would, perforce, be another connection between these circuits and their disparate operating requirements).

There is no contradiction as Naim focus most strongly on audio reproduction quality.

My recent bricking of the NDX during 4.3 updating has made me a tad cautious. In retrospect it was probably a driver/Windows mismatch but all that stuff is not my forte - and I really don't want to have to engage with it to update if it can be avoided.

G

Bits is bits. It doesn't matter how they get there.

Or would you be interested in a discussion about different ethernet cables in the hope of a better upgrade?

... but if something or someone interrupts the WiFi connection then the bits DON'T get there.

When streaming this isn't an issue (you just get a drop-out).  However when it occurs half way through the firmware update, then you risk the unit being bricked.  Not a risk I would want to take when a cable is an easy solution.

Yes but the wifi isn't used for the update itself is it?  That is downloaded to the computer first. Then the update itself is via USB.

The update data are downloaded to the computer used to control the process, then...

Some parts of the update are sent from the computer to the streamer via USB, some parts of the update are sent from the computer to the streamer via Ethernet.

It's done this way to preserve the circuit isolation in the streamer.

Really?

I must be lucky then because my laptop is two wireless hops away from my NDX.

I have no reason to doubt the word of Phil Harris.