Shahinian and other speak suggestions from SL2 for 500 system

Sten posted:

Hi Frank,

I would be very interested in your thoughts on the WT Versalex/XX2/P75/282/HCDR/NAP250DR set up as it is very close to my own. The Hawks I am using are as I said second hand and of an indeterminable age ( I emailed Shahinian direct asking about the age based on serial number amongst other things - I was pleasantly surprised when he (Vasken Shahinian) answered within the hour on my setup questions over the weekend - age questions will have to wait till he is back in the office on Tuesday).

I would be particularly interested in your thoughts on the bass. I tried a few tracks (on tidal through ND5xs) from another thread about best bass (Best Bass Recordings? - 2 Categories) as well as some of my own on vinyl (e.g. Apex Twin - Ageispolis from Selected Ambient Works) and was expecting low ends to make my throat vibrate but this was not the case - the bass although clean and controlled was not as deep as I expected from comments on that particular thread - could this be because: a) the 250DR doesn't have enough grunt. b) the speakers are old and the bass drivers a bit tired or c) the bass is actually supposed to be this way and other speakers can't cope with the sub bass and "rumble".

The mid and upper tones are sublime and vocals especially are incredibly clear and "life like", add acoustic guitar and piano and it really is magical and no issues with bass. Classical music, as others have said, also sounds fantastic - listened to Reference Recordings (half speed mastered 45rpm) Mozart Piano Concertos 21 & 24 - Eugene Istomin. Amazing clarity and so uplifting - a fully immersive musical experience!

Also be interested in what records you play across genres to test the speakers.

cheers

Sten

Hi Sten,

Well, that's quite close to what we've been getting. Tremendously articulated but not overblown bass (wow, going back to Obelisks after these things the bass sounded huge and muddled by comparison, as well as the midrange being recessed - real surprise as we normally love the Obs). In some ways, the Hawks are closer to old Naim speakers - we were comparing them with SBLs and SL-2s in our discussions. Maybe not quite as much punch but loads more depth and the midrange/treble is to die for. Orchestras come alive and there's a real sense of wood and metal from the various instruments, an almost tangible quality to it. I've not heard that from many speakers, maybe higher end Focals, but the Shahinans do this while keeping things engaging which is a real trick.

The Hawks also seem to do rock'n'roll very well, better than most Shahinians. Dick Shahinian uses predominantly classical music in voicing his speakers so some are not quite as convincing with rock, but these hawks seem to really tune into whatever the material needs to be convincing. 

As for music, we tried all sorts. I was mean and switched on Koyaanisqatsi by Philip Glass through the NDX/XPS2DR. Normally this doesn't work very well in our dead-sounding foyer. The Hawks really brought it to life and seemed to draw us in more than I am used to with this piece. Also tried Arvo Pärt's De Profundis from the Sixteen's album Ikon. Very convincing indeed. 

On the Versalexes, we played a bunch of music in the last week, including:

• Scheherazade - Analogue Productions reissue - tremendous
• Saint Saens organ Concerto - Klavier reissue, could have wanted a touch more weight here
• Tamás Vásáry, Chopin Nocturnes, 70's DG - lyrical and beautiful
• Somethin' Else, Cannonball Adderley - Music Matters reissue - bloody awesome
• Pat Metheny, Travels - great
• Animals from The 2nd Law by Muse - cracking
• Shadows in the night, Bob Dylan - it's Dylan, nothing can save Dylan
• In Rainbows, Radiohead - brilliant, got far more from this than expected, worked really well
• Poland, Tangerine Dream - not much more than usual here, but very well done
• Pergamon, Tangerine Dream - lovelier than ever if you like this sort of thing (which I do)

One of the things which has impressed us the most is that you can play music quietly on these things and still get a full rendition with full dynamic range. You don't necessarily have to turn things up to 11, although if you do there is no sense of strain. Remarkable.

I'd love to hear Diapasons. According to Simon who has heard them, they're in a different league again. I believe (for the one that asked) they're around £24.5k or thereabouts.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Hi again,

So I have been listening to the Hawks for a few days now and they just get more and more engaging. I did go back to my Proac Response D18 just to do a back check and although they are also really good speakers I just found myself wanting to go back to the Hawks again. They are simply more detailed, open, dynamic and immersive. They bring that wow factor back and I can't stop putting records on...and that has to be a good sign.

So call me mad but I have put an offer in on a pair of Hawks that are nigh on 15 years old to replace my 4 year old ProAcs.......  

So if accepted I have to start thinking about doing the umbilicals properly - I have Chord Epic twin running from my 250 to the bass drivers but the question is, should I stick with the same cable or should I go for something different (will it make a difference) for the umbilicals? 

Cheers

Sten

Hi Sten, I hope your offer has now been accepted. I really think the big Shahinian's are in a world apart.

Have you tried playing with toe-in? They are a little unusual this way. Aside from the fact that they often work best placed further apart than normal speakers, toe-in not only influences soundstaging in a manner that can be helpful if you are listening to them across the narrow side of the room  (rather than down the length) and only have a moderate amount of space behind them, but also increases the sense of space and three-dimensionality within the room, because of course the rear drivers then face the rear wall obliquely and interact more with the side walls (which are however of course comparatively further away when firing across the room). Although my Diapasons sound magnificent almnmost anywhere you put them in my room, positioning them around 1.5 feet from the rear wall with a very small amount of toe-in is magical.

I have no experience of the Chord Epic and have not in fact had much success with Chord cables in my systems over the years. I know that the inflexibility of NACA5 makes them a bit of a fiddle for the umbilicals. My Diapasons came with umbilicals made from Mogami 2972 Quad core able and I ended up swapping this for NACA5 for the main cables as well. They took an eternity to burn in, but I am now very happy with the result. They have a tiny bit less leading edge slam than the A5, but are much more realistic on acoustic timbre and decay. And they are much more flexible.

Cheers

Mike

I use Kimber PM33 spades. I've found they keep a good contact over time, as opposed to the usual, simpler one-piece design and they sound very good.

I found toeing them in very slightly, better focused whatever subtle forward, thumping bass there was.

Yes, the Hawks and Diapasons are particularly engaging, detailed, very dynamic and immersive. I've heard many good systems and very occasionally I'll hear a track and think I prefer it's presentation from the usual forward-facing speakers, but it's not that often. Occasionally, some parts of a track can lose a little prominence in the omni sound, but overall they do sound so good. Listen to the presentation of WGFA - The Who or Pink Floyd - The Wall album.........incredible. They are in a different league to the rest of the Shahinian range. Vasken designed the Hawks and was always keen to respond to my emails.