NDX vs nDAC (again)

Hugo ?   ;-)

Well, if I took this seriously I could point out that the Hugo doesn't support DIN out.

Bud

Why not sell the NDX,  CDX2.2 and the Bryston DAC and get an NDS the to go with the 555ps?

Richard

It's a heavy investment. What was it about the nDAC that you didn't like in comparison to the Bryston? The nDAC is very much a distilled essence of Naim that, as someone else put it on this forum yesterday, "grabs the music by the scruff of the neck"... An apt description. While not the most refined sound, it certainly makes you sit up and take notice. Note that the new DAC firmware (in beta testing ATM) may improve things. 

When I added the XPS-DR to my nDAC, there were noticeable gains in refinement and lowering of the noise floor. More detail and nuance, and way more heft. I imagine that a 555PS will improve things along these lines but even further, as I've not heard the nDAC with that power supply.

I was headed in that direction (555PS, then the NDS), when the Resonessence Labs Mirus caught me by surprise. The nDAC can sound a touch mechanical in comparison. 

Not sure if that helps...

Jan

(edit : +1 to Richard's advice above)

I have NDX / Ndac / 555 as a digital source and it sounds great (if your has any brightness to your room the NDS would be a better option). 

The NDX / Ndac / 555 was materially better than NDX 555 and given the Ndac is only worth c1100 it's a worthwhile upgrade. 

As as always engaging a good dealer is the way to go 

Gary

I've owned an NDS.  I wasn't impressed but I didn't have a Fraim at that time so I sold it and got an NDX. Then I got a Fraim.  That made a difference.

Unfortunately, I've been forced because of personal reasons to move to an apartment which is limited in space.  I just couldn't deal with the Fraim where I'm at now.  I may go to a Fraim Lite.

Bud

I'll probably give the nDAC another try but I'll have to have another expensive digital cable (NDX and CDX2..2 to nDAC). 

Bud

I am not selling my CDX2.2.  It's my best source (digital out).  Besides, I like to just pop a CD into it w/o having to fire up my network devices.

Bud

I have a head phones only system because of space limitations.  The thing I didn't like about the nDAC was it seemed to have a brightness that wasn't normal. 

I have a dealer that gives me good advice.  He prefers the NDX (bare) to the nDAC (bare). 

Bud

Well, if I took this seriously I could point out that the Hugo doesn't support DIN out.

I guess I was half joking, Bud.  But to make a serious point, it would be this:  I can appreciate the Sarums cost the proverbial arm & a leg, but is it logical to choose further kit (which you may find unpleasing or sub optimal for your listening taste) based just on the constraint of cables you have already ?

I suppose it might well depend on just how good you think the Sarums are, and their perceived importance within the system relative to the main hardware.

But at the end of the day you could always trade on the Sarums if necessary.  Then you'd be free to audition all-comers to find the right equipment, with which you're 100% happy rather than doubting in some way.

In accounting terms I guess its what'd be known as a sunk cost, ie a past decision that should ideally not be influential upon the next/current decision.

Just my thoughts, or way of looking at it.

I am a firm believer that cables are crucial.  So many people audition equipment with inadequate sources or so-so cables.  If you auditioned my CDX2.2 connected to the Bryston DAC, you would think it sounded pretty good with a Chord Indigo TA but then if you listened to it with the new Super Sarum, you wouldn't want to have to use the Indigo TA.  The Indigo is better than a good many other digital cables I've owned.

For years I felt that Cardas Clear were arguably about the best cables for me and they probably were when I owned Bryston equipment.  Now I'm convinced that there is a synergism between Chord and Naim. 

I used Cardas Clear headphone cables for years but my dealer convinced me that Nordost headphone cables were better and they are. 

He has convinced me that the Nordost Tyr power cable would make a big difference with my new NDX.  I'd always used PowerLines with them but now I'm about to see if my dealer still knows what he's talking about.  I trust him so I'm in on it.

I realize I've been spending a lot of money on equipment.  I actually used a Bryston amp, a Cotter preamp, Roger's LS3/5a's and Audioquest cables for 36 years.  Now at my age, I want to try things I've admired for decades (Naim, etc.).

I'm in a position that I can and that's what I'm doing.

If I still had my Harbeth 30.1's I might be going a different route.

Bud

I don't want to debate Hugo vs. Naim.

Bud

But why not?

It's all academic.  I just ordered a new nDAC plus Super Sarum digital cable.  My dealer explained what it will do and he's NEVER led me down the garden path.

Bud

hehe Yeah I'm going to get one soon, the price is right at this time.

I like the 4 Toslink inputs.

 Hi Leatherneck

Im sure the NDX with 555 will sound wonderful, and Ndac with 555 and another Super Sarum more so, but it seems more complex that it could be to give you the quality you want - how you want it.

At your level of cable it is recommended to have a complete loom that all share the same brand and/or architecture so to get the most cogent presentation out.  Your Tyr power cables are better than Chords top Super Sarum power cables.  It might have been money better spent on other Nordost cables as you are not running a Naim pre amp - making use of the DIN benefits.

If it were me I would want to try the DAVE tt , might do the job with one box.

Or you could try the nas and uniti serve going into a 272 and use the headphone output it has.

cheers.

With the exception of the Nordost PC and the Nordost headphone cables, all my cables are Chord.  My dealer told me he preferred Chord over Nordost with Naim except he raved about the TYR2 PC and after trying it I understand why.  He also convinced me that Nordost headphone cables were better than my favorites (Cardas Clear).  I have just added one to my Audeze LCD-3's to go with the one on my HD-800's.

I've owned three NDX.  I didn't like the first one so I got rid of but came back to it after I got a Fraim.  This time I realized how great the NDX was.  I replaced that with an NDS/555PS but then for personal reasons I had to downsize.  I sold the NDS/555PS and tried to get along with the UServe into an nDAC but the UServe digital out isn't very good.

I traded the nDAC for another NDX and decided to upgrade my cables from Indigo to Super Sarum's.  I also got myself a new CDX2.2 because I have a lot of CD's and liked the digital out into the NDX.

So now I'm at the point where I'm considering another nDAC but it demands an external power supply.  I tried the XPS but was disappointed.  I preferred a Bryston DAC that I still had from my Bryston days.  Since everyone including my dealer were saying the nDAC/555PS was the way to go, I began looking for a used one.

All I could find were pretty old and would require a recap.  Add to that a DR upgrade and we're talking $4K.

With my nDAC trade-in, I was able to get a new 555PS DR at a good price so I made the trade.  I should get the 555 next week.

I've never found a built-in headphone amp from either Bryston or Naim that can compete with a standalone amp (Naim, Bryston, Sennheiser).  The Bryston is the best solid state HP amp I've owned.  I am feeding it with a DIN/RCA Super Sarum.  It would be better if it was XLR/XLR since my experience with the Bryston is that's best with a balanced input.  I recently committed to sticking with Naim so I went DIN/RCA.

I've backed off ordering a new nDAC/Super Sarum until I can find out what I have now.   

After all my cables/boxes are broken in, I'll decide about a new nDAC.  I will also use my Indigo Plus along with the new Super Sarum digital cable until I see where we are at.

Ideally, I would love to be able to use the NDX DAC w/o an external DAC.  It's not good enough now w/o the 555PS but we'll see how that goes once the 555 is plugged into the NDX and aged a bit.

Bud

I didn't realize you had the nDAC/555PS.  What is it about the Hugo that you prefer over the Naim kit?  What are you using for a source?

I've owned Naim analog and digital cables and they are very good.  I just replaced my last Hi-Line with a Super Sarum and I think it's better.

I think Chord work well with Naim.

Bud

Hi Leatherneck

Have you tried Headline with upgraded cables powered by SuperCap? I used this setup for a year whilst I was waiting to move house and to my ears it was a fabulous combination with HD650/800

ATB Minh

Yes, I had a Hi-Cap DR on it.  I even had it modified by A/V Options so I could use different cables rather than the captive cable.  It was good but not as good as the Bryston and possibly the Sennheiser amp.

Also, there is no balanced output.

Bud

Someone commented the brightness of nDac. I think cabling has a lot to do with this. I use bare nDac to SN2 + HCDR. I auditioned the setup with Naim HiLine interconnect and it was borderline unlistenable. After 15 minutes I couldn't handle it anymore. Edgy and bright sound. With ARSound Lunar though, no sign of edginess, brightness or harshness. If I had a PSU for the nDAC, HiLine could be a perfect match, who knows. 

Glad to hear there's a new firmware in beta testing, can't wait to hear if it has any improvements to the sound. 

I just bought a mint nDAC at a great price.  Nothing to lose on it. 555PS arrives soon.

Bud

Here's my dealer's take:

Hi Bud!  Now that you have the 555PS DR it is safe to consider the addition of the nDAC.  (nDAC bare is simply bright to my ears and the NDX still has great resolution, PRAT, but with a more relaxed presentation.)  Adding the 555PS DR to the nDAC makes things so much more liquid and smooth but you still get the amazing nDAC resolution.  (In this scenario, still keep the Tyr2 on the 555PS DR)

Moderated Post:  Leatherneck, I've removed the Beta release info.  This is something your dealer shouldn't be saying anything about, and definitely not for relaying on a public forum - at least until the Beta embargo is lifted.  Thanks.

Originally Posted by Leatherneck:

Originally Posted by Minh Nguyen:

Hi Leatherneck

Have you tried Headline with upgraded cables powered by SuperCap? I used this setup for a year whilst I was waiting to move house and to my ears it was a fabulous combination with HD650/800

ATB Minh

Yes, I had a Hi-Cap DR on it.  I even had it modified by A/V Options so I could use different cables rather than the captive cable.  It was good but not as good as the Bryston and possibly the Sennheiser amp.

 

Also, there is no balanced output.

 

Bud

Headline with HCDR is mediocre in my opinion. It must be powered by a SC to reveal its true potential. If you ever have the opportunity in future, upgrade the SLIC cable and use the output on the nDAC to feed the Headline directly

Well, I am happy with the Bryston DAC.  It supports balanced headphone cables.

Bud