NDX vs nDAC (again)

It's a shame that we can't all put the wife on the top shelf of the Fraim - with augmentation from a 555ps of course.  would be able to listen for hours..

TOBY JUG,  you posted something beautiful about the importance of want, short and sweet on a previous post, I think it was  would a 282 be the last Pre amp!  Could you share that again! 

That was my experience, too. I preferred the 555PS over the 555PS(DR)

Mike

I already listen to my wife for hours and neither friam not power supply is required, I consider it a privelege, although the trebble can be a bit harsh at times 

I looked for a used one for quite a while and all that were for sale were so old they'd need a recap.

In any case, my new 555PS DR will arrive Tuesday.

Bud

After obtaining an nDAC and 555PS DR, I've spent a good deal of time listening to the system.  The 555 improved the sound of the nDAC to the point where it no longer sounded bright to my ears.  Eventually, I tried taking the nDAC out of the system and powered the NDX with the 555 and used the NDX as a DAC for the CDX2.2.  I actually preferred this combination.  The 555 made a significant improvement to the NDX, more so than it did the nDAC.

I may just stick with this combination since it eliminates one box along with an expensive digital cable and a PowerLine.  

I think now I'm going to keep an eye out for a used NDS. I know at least one member suggested going to an NDS from the start.

Interesting! Have you also compared NDX and nDAC without the 555PS DR? If so, what was your finding? Best, nbpf

I didn't care for the nDAC w/o the external power supply.  It seemed a bit overly bright to me and I actually preferred a Bryston DAC that I had.  The 555PS changed that and I was happy with the nDAC/555PS. 

I've always liked the NDX but a bare NDX wasn't the equal of the nDAC/555PS.  Then as I said, I tried the NDX with the 555PS and there was a remarkable improvement, more so than with the nDAC when I added the 555PS.

It's only when I experienced the NDX/555PS that I realized that I could reduce the number of boxes and cables with that combination and have equal or better SQ.

Now if money wasn't a consideration, I could accomplish the same reduction in equipment yet (probably) obtain the best overall performance by replacing the NDX with an NDS.

That's where I'm at now.  I should just stop and enjoy what I have and unless I can get a really good deal on an NDS, that's what I will do.

Bud

An CDX2 into an nDAC will sound much better than the analog out of the CDX2.  That's been my experience.  It's worth the investment in your CDX2.

Figure about $2K USD for the nDAC.  There are lots of them around used.

I spent a lot of time looking for a good used 555PS that wasn't too old.  I didn't want one that was 7,8,9 years old because it would be due for a recap. 

I will say this though, if you can get a used 555PS in good condition it will transform the nDAC and your CDX2 will be a great source of music. 

You are on the right path.  Get digital out on your CDX2 and get yourself a 555PS.  It's a great investment that can be used in a lot of applications.

Bud

Bud, thanks for the additional remarks! Best, nbpf

I got that really good deal on the NDS.  I ordered one.

Trading an NDX, nDAC and PowerLine on it.

Bud

Bud - Did you just trade the Powerline that I sold to you last week towards the NDS? You barely had time to unwrap the parcel!  The Pl was sold to you at a great price, so does this mean I have some sort of financial interest in the NDS? Seriously, I hope that you enjoy the latest addition to your amazing system.  All the best, Bruce.

Hi Bruce,

I guess you could have some sort of financial interest in the NDS except I'm not trading the PL you sent me.  I have three PL's and I'll keep yours.  It's really nice and you gave me a good deal on it.

With the exit of the nDAC, I can give up one PL and a digital cable.

Bud

Congrats Bud!  I hope you enjoy the NDS for many years to come!

ATB.

Hook

i very much have done this. I ran a NDX into NDAC/555PS for a few years. I found the NDX/555PS strained and artificial. The DR version more so. To meet the shortcomings of the NDX DAC were exaggerated with the 555PS, with some glare and a little sibilence. I also felt the NDX lost the attractive bounce it has when native.

Now the NDAC sounded very good indeed using the original 555PS fed by the NDX. This was my dream system, until the Hugo came along. I very much preferred the NDAC/555PS to the NDS/555PS. This was counter many peoples expectation, and I wrote quite a lot about it a few yours ago by comparing different tracks which is searchable on the forum.

In short the NDAC/555PS has a nice organic, slightly analogue feel. The only music where I felt the NDS added more enjoyment was choral music.. Where the increased NDS clarity comes into play.

The NDAC/555PS(DR) was however a disappointment. Much of the analogue organic feel went, and the NDAC sounded more like an NDS but less convincingly so..

So NDX-> NDAC/555PS was a stellar config. It was bettered slightly by a NDX/555PS -> NDAC/555PS but to my ears not sufficiently so to justify the outlay and box count.

Simon

Simon, thanks for the nice summary of your experience with NDX, NDAC and 555PS!

I have followed your assessments of NDAC+555PS, NDAC+555PS-DR and Hugo in other threads and I was a bit surprised by Bud's findings.

I guess these findings can be partly explained by the sensitivity the NDAC seems to exhibit with respect to the quality of its input signals. In other words, the NDAC is known to be far from source agnostic and conflicting judgements on the sound quality of the DAC can be partly explained in terms of differences in NDAC inputs.

Best, nbpf

Right. My actual setup is M2Tech hiFace Evo -> NDAC. I am very happy with this chain but I know I could probably improve it by adding a 555PS to the NDAC and by replacing the M2Tech hiFace Evo with a better USB to S/PDIF interface. I would not mind doing so but, at this point, am a bit reluctant investing in a 555PS for my second hand NDAC. I would rather demo a TT or just wait and see what Naim is going to do about its DAC range ... Best, nbpf  

Originally Posted by nbpf:

Right. My actual setup is M2Tech hiFace Evo -> NDAC. I am very happy with this chain but I know I could probably improve it by adding a 555PS to the NDAC and by replacing the M2Tech hiFace Evo with a better USB to S/PDIF interface. I would not mind doing so but, at this point, am a bit reluctant investing in a 555PS for my second hand NDAC.

Wow!  

Another Gent using the Forum wisely.  Sounds like and Idea way to enter the Streaming World. 

Be careful nbpf, your thinking like someone else I know, very Well ! LOL 

Nbpf, excellent - you just might consider a used a non DR 555PS to go with your second hand DAC. There are a few around - yes it might cost you a recap - but you may still get a bargain.

Also it will be interesting about what the new NDAC firmware might bring to the party other than I assume DSD

Simon

It is looking that you are going to do hard work..The nDAC is very much a distilled essence of Naim.An apt description. While not the most refined sound, it certainly makes you sit up and take notice. Note that the new DAC firmware may improve things.

I should explain that my feelings about the NDX/555PS was based on a very short term listen and I was probably too hung up on the idea of a reduction in box and cable count.  That combo was never the end of the road for me since I have been listening to those who said I should have gone straight to an NDS.  Well, I've done that.

I did have the NDX/nDAC/555PS DR combo working for long enough to know what I could expect with headphones.  It was very good and I could easily tell the difference among some stellar cables (Super ARAY's, Indigo TA's, Nordost Vahalla 1's, etc.).

I've owned three NDX (don't ask) and I may eventually have another one.  There will come a time when I'll stop fooling around.  I did own the same system for 36 years before my Cotter preamp quit and that started a buying spree that still hasn't stopped.

Bud

I might get angry replies by writing this but I just recently had Naim XP5 XS PSU and one aftermarket XPS PSU in home demo for my Naim DAC. Not mentioning the manufacturer since moderators don't seem to like it. Now I've used Naim DAC since 2011 and the sound is very familiar to me. It's my oldest Naim piece in the system and the setup is built around it. For example, when I auditioned interconnect cables. I ended up with ARSound Lunar since Hi-Line was way too clinical and detailed. Caused me fatigue after 15 minutes of listening. 

I demoed both PSU's but the end result was that I preferred the sound of bare Naim DAC! I was as surprised as you guys probably are. 

XP5 XS brought much weight to the low end, that was the biggest difference I heard. But that's the problem with my setup. I have ATC SCM40 v2 in ~20m2 apartment. There was simply too much bass after adding XP5 XS. It overpowered the sound and I felt that my setup sounded unbalanced. 

Aftermarket XPS brought more clarity to to the sound in general. It also added bass but it was much tighter and in better grip than with XP5 XS. But the negative side was that it took the sound further from the well known Naim house sound. It didn't sound as good as bare Naim DAC.

Now the results would probably be different with different interconnect cable and speakers. I owned PMC Twenty.23 before ATC's and they would've certainly benefit from the PSU and extra bass. 

I haven't heard the high end PSU's, not even XPS2 or XPS2 DR. But for now I think I can live happily with bare Naim DAC. It's an amazing source! But remember to feed quality signal to it. It's definitely not immune to sources!

I guess the NDS will give you a nice break time! Congratulations and enjoy! Best, nbpf