Ex dem amps from a dealer

Less than 10% off full price is basically way too expensive, but there are a lot of variables here. For a new item I don't mind paying at or near full price if I've used the dealers time, had a home demo and installation etc. but anything less and I'd be looking for 10% off and that's for a brand new naim piece (I have done both of the above).

'Ex demo' can cover a lot of bases / ages of kit / warranty issues but for a 3 year old item 25%+ discount from RRP comes into my head as a figure.. the dealer should still make a margin on that.

Can you say the models you are demoing. If they are in the classic range then new models (eg power amps) have recently benefitted from the DR upgrades which would make the poor discount off a non-DR exdem model even more insulting. I can't believe a Naim dealer would be doing this however.  

I don't think you should be paying for the running-in in your discount. It's not a Stradivarius.

The 200/202 would sell new at about £4000 (with DR), so that's around 15% off for three-year old non-DR kit. I'd say that's rotten value, personally. I'd expect 25%-30% or more off the 200/202. The hicap price isn't as bad, but I'd still look for more discount. 

Maybe time to find a new dealer? Trust is so important in that relationship - these are not small purchases.

They are having a laugh. Have a look around a few dealer websites and you will see what ex dem prices should be. 

Are you in the US?  If so there are not a lot of used Naim around...dealers buy them up here to control prices.  The scarcity is in this price if you are in the US.

This is why used car salesmen can make more money than new car salesmen...they can stick any number below retail on the item.

2014 is pretty darned new though...I have stuff much older than that; they are also banking on the Naim quality...a year old Naim box is pretty good really.

Lastly, if they are going to stand behind the equipment for a year or whatever...this is in the price they quote...you are paying for the ability to bring it back in 3 months if it blows up; this is worth something.

If you buy online and it explodes...fail.

As the prices are in £s one can assume he's not in the US. 

I've not seen the serial numbers but Audio-t has various ex dem 202/200s for a whisker under £3000 for both and you could always try making a reasonable offer too....

This is old equipment.  Did the dealer draft their own warranty agreement for you?  I would think that Naim isn't going to provide a five year warranty on something already three years old (this topic is in the archives).

I'd be looking at 20% off for the 2014 Hicap, and 35% off the 2012 units. If you cannot achieve that, find another dealer. The 2012 units are not really ex dem, at that age they are effectively second hand. How do you know how many people they have been loaned to? You'd be completely daft to pay the price they are suggesting. 

Recent ex-dem should be 10% off (even after a month).

If it's three years old, then it's not ex-dem, it's second-hand...

There's one thing I don't understand, why is it so difficult to get a British dealer to give a decent discount? Is their profit-margin lower than that of continental dealers?

Tell them you will pay the prices I suggested. If they won't do it, shop around. 

It's not difficult. It's just that people don't reveal what they get. It's between them and their dealer. 

I would agree with Hungry's costings on these exdem models (secondhand in the case of the 202/200) and wouldn't offer a penny more. I would presume the Hicap is a DR model being 2014 but it is rather naughty of them not to explain the DR upgrades now apply to the 200 (with the 202).

Actually thinking about this one again I have heard very good things about the 202 with the new 200DR bare and it may not be that far behind the 202/200 (non DR)/HicapDR combo, potentially saving the not inconsiderable cost of a Hicap. I haven't done the maths but I suspect the new 200DR route would be potentially more cost effective. At the very least this cheeky dealer should loan you the 202 with both the 200 and a new 200 DR and the Hicap for a home demo so you can check which of the 202/200 nonDR/Hicap or the 200/200DR offer the best VFM based on a more reasonable price for the 2012 202/200.

You may of course decide you have lost trust in this dealer and walk away.

Two minutes on the interweb reveals a 200, less than a year old, for £1,200, from a Naim dealer. That's the sort of price to pay. Give me five minutes and I'll find a 202. But then, as has been mentioned, a 200DR may be as good as an original 200 with Hicap DR. 

You should be collecting a finder's fee. 

Should not be hard to find a Naim dealer in the UK...crikey!

Time to move to a new dealer IMHO.

For a few ££ more, you could buy brand new items instead of these second-hand items (they are effectively second hand). The new items should sound much more than 10% better as well.

If you don't wish to change dealer, just return the "ex-demo" kit and say you are re-considering new stuff instead. Much wider choice as well.

Once you are out of this mess, you can re-consider all of your options

What about 202 + HCDR + 200DR?

That's a lot of Naim dealers. Looks like the plot of Starbuck's on the US east coast. I wonder if Naim dealers in the UK have drive-thru windows? Just in case you want your Muso fast but don't want the hassle of having to go inside.

Most dealers hang on to Nam stock more than a few months because it takes so darn long to run in and they need run-in kit for the dem room. So the age of the components is, to me, not a surprise at all and I would not be overly concerned on that front.

As for the point at which it becomes second hand, it is never second hand while your dealer holds it as stock regardless of how it has been used. Sounds like nonsense but I mean this purely from a warranty perspective. As soon as they sell it to an end customer, the regular 5 year warranty gets activated. This is basically the same for any kit and, although I am sure there are some exceptions, I've lived in a fair few countries and using stock for demonstrations has never started the warranty agreement.

That basically leaves the price. In my view, if it is has been looked after by the dealer then it is basically new kit, even if they've used it for a while so with 10% off, I would not feel cheated (clearly everyone else disagrees). So the bigger question is on the NAP200. What is a non DR 200 worth? I think the market price drop is more than 10%. I would be okay with everything except the 200 and be asking for a better price or maybe, regular price (i.e. not even 10% discount) but they cover the cost of the DR upgrade on it. However, the benefit you get from that may be limited since you are using a HC. Maybe they can throw in a NAPSC? Maybe they can throw in SNAIC leads instead of Lavender.

If you have a relationship with your dealer, I would definately discuss this with them directly and give them the opportunity to work with your concerns rather than show them the back of your boot heal. They are letting you do a home demo after all and actually, not all dealers do that. In fact it gets increasingly rare once you are out of the UK and totally unheard of in my neck of the woods. I am absolutely not saying to suck it up if you are feeling hard done by but am saying to try and negotiate with them first.