Naim SBL Refurbishment

Posted by: john s on 26 September 2015

I have at last managed to sort out my system following a move, which comprises Gyrodeck/RB300/Dynavector DV10x5, Graham Slee phono amp, Uniti, NAP 200 and SBL’s. I have also managed a few upgrades e.g. power supply for my gyrodeck and phono amp. I’m very pleased with the overall results, especially how good vinyl sounds even with discs I bought 40 years ago (even better when I’ve used the Spinclean, one of my favourite “upgrades&rdquo. So, although I might be tempted to upgrade the arm or my Uniti in future, at present I’m just enjoying listening to the music but….I’m conscious that my SBL’s are the original model. They haven’t been upgraded but have been carefully set up in situ with a new gasket kit following the move, but sooner or later I suspect they will need a more thorough refurbishment. So I would appreciate some views/arguments as to whether it is better to spend on driver/crossover replacement (which I think I would have to do myself as I am not near a Naim dealer and anyway I think I’d have to set them up in situ again anyway) or whether it is better to save for a more modern speaker. Just to set the scene, I think my SBL’s cost about £1800 or so in the early 1990’s (pre the 1995 update) so applying inflation to that would suggest a comparison with speakers costing (£3300). That is a bit more than I would envisage paying, and I suspect a bit more than the system would justify, so how about a limit of £2500 - and just to make it a bit easier (maybe?) I would want floor standing speakers that are not significantly bigger than the SBL’s (for practical placement reasons). I’m not trying to elicit views on which speaker etc. - just whether modern speaker technology has moved forward so much that replacement would be a better idea than refurbishing the SBL’s. Obviously the other consideration is the fact that upgrading would be far less expensive, but on the other hand possibly not such a good long term bet? Any contributions much appreciated.

Posted on: 26 September 2015 by hungryhalibut

You would probably be better off selling your SBLs and buying more recent ones. The new bass units are very expensive. That said, you could change the crossovers for new ones, which I think cost about £200. Changing the drivers is not a job for the user, as they need to be sealed and sometimes the opening needs to be made larger.

If if you were to buy more modern speakers they won't be better per se, but you may prefer them. The only way to tell is to try some out. I suspect you'd be better using your money to get a better preamp to use with your 200. A 272 could be just the ticket.

Posted on: 26 September 2015 by Dave***t

I recently spoke to Cymbiosis about this, and the verdict was that getting SBLs back to tip top condition was the best bet unless you were spending ~£3.5k on new speakers.

That picture could be blurred a bit by what you can find second hand, of course. But in terms of SBL refurbishment costs, there's basically 3 things you can do.

New tweeters - approx £400.
New crossovers - £220.
New bass drivers - approx £800.

I could look back at the emails to find exact prices, but you're probably best just getting in touch with a good dealer and talking it over.

For what it's worth I had new crossovers made up (my old ones were old enough that they had A4 cables), but will probably leave the rest until I can consider some Ovators. Which will be a very long way off, but it's not like using SBLs is a hardship in the meantime.

Posted on: 26 September 2015 by hungryhalibut

Dave's post demonstrates what I was getting at - you could sell the MK 1 speakers for say £400 and get some with the new drivers for £900, maybe add crossovers for £220, and it's still a lot cheaper than upgrading what you have now, particularly if they are black ash, which is distinctly unpopular these days.

Posted on: 26 September 2015 by Naimiac

Enjoy your SBLs as long as you like them, and don't believe all the hype about aging components. Never fix something that works.

Posted on: 26 September 2015 by naim_nymph

john s,

i suppose it depends upon how you feel about changing your SBLs, if you've owned them since the early 90s they may by now have more sentimental value than money worth.

Do they have a nice woodgrain veneer you particularly like?

Replacing them with later version SBLs is not a bad idea but would involve a search to find a nicely looked after pair that's good enough to buy, and while you're at it you may as well consider a nice pair of SL2s instead.

However, if you love your MK1 sibbles don't be put off with old type mid/bass drivers, in good working order they can and will sound absolutely marvellous [as i'm sure you know!]

Yes the later MK2 bass/drivers are a nice improvement, but it's not as huge as many like to brag about.

If your tweeters are original they will almost certainly be worn after 20 years of use and a replacement pair will bring very improved benefits, and likewise the X-overs.

If you have the ability to replace the tweeters yourself, you can buy new scanspeak on line, or alternatively; package your top-tweeter boxes off to a naim dealer who can replace them for you and post them back. The top boxes are not that big, so safe packaging, and postal costs shouldn't be a problem.

The naim audio supplied tweeters benefit from being matched in pairs which they say is a very good thing, although others say they prefer the DIY route which costs a lot less.

But to sum up my ramblings the easiest way to go would be to buy new x-overs and tweeters, perhaps a new gasket set if need be, and carry on enjoying : )

Debs

Posted on: 27 September 2015 by hungryhalibut

When I had SBLs I had new tweeters fitted and it was a good improvement. I hadn't planned to get them but an unfortunate incident of a tweeter and a child's finger in the day time made it essential. I agree with Debs - a new set of crossovers and DIY tweeter replacement would be a path of least disturbance. If you still like what SBLs do, you'll have to spend a lot of money to better them.

Posted on: 27 September 2015 by HiFiman

I replaced the tweeters and cross overs myself on my Allaes, tweeters via the DIY method. The reason for changing these on speakers I have owned since new for over 12 years, kids turned the volume to max wife came though later on and pressed play game over !!!

After the repair 2 years ago the Allaes sound wonderful and I will probably never part with them. Tweeters via the DIY route cost around £100 cross overs about £200.

Posted on: 27 September 2015 by Chris Dolan

Originally Posted by john s:

I’m not trying to elicit views on which speaker etc. - just whether modern speaker technology has moved forward so much that replacement would be a better idea than refurbishing the SBLs.

Originally Posted by Dave***t:

I recently spoke to Cymbiosis about this, and the verdict was that getting SBLs back to tip top condition was the best bet unless you were spending ~£3.5k on new speakers.

Originally Posted by naim_nymph:

But to sum up my ramblings the easiest way to go would be to buy new x-overs and tweeters, perhaps a new gasket set if need be, and carry on enjoying : )

I went through this dilemma recently - having used SBLs for over a quarter of a century

SBLs take a lot of replacing and the tcl route on your existing speakers may well be the best route for your system. However it is probably worth trying to "scratch the itch" and listen to some modern speakers if you can.

Posted on: 27 September 2015 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly

Originally Posted by john s:

I have at last managed to sort out my system following a move, which comprises Gyrodeck/RB300/Dynavector DV10x5, Graham Slee phono amp, Uniti, NAP 200 and SBL’s.

I have also managed a few upgrades e.g. power supply for my gyrodeck and phono amp. I’m very pleased with the overall results, especially how good vinyl sounds even with discs I bought 40 years ago (even better when I’ve used the Spinclean, one of my favourite “upgrades&rdquo.

So, although I might be tempted to upgrade the arm or my Uniti in future, at present I’m just enjoying listening to the music but….I’m conscious that my SBL’s are the original model. They haven’t been upgraded but have been carefully set up in situ with a new gasket kit following the move, but sooner or later I suspect they will need a more thorough refurbishment.

So I would appreciate some views/arguments as to whether it is better to spend on driver/crossover replacement (which I think I would have to do myself as I am not near a Naim dealer and anyway I think I’d have to set them up in situ again anyway) or whether it is better to save for a more modern speaker.

Just to set the scene, I think my SBL’s cost about £1800 or so in the early 1990’s (pre the 1995 update) so applying inflation to that would suggest a comparison with speakers costing (£3300). That is a bit more than I would envisage paying, and I suspect a bit more than the system would justify, so how about a limit of £2500 - and just to make it a bit easier (maybe?) I would want floor standing speakers that are not significantly bigger than the SBL’s (for practical placement reasons).

I’m not trying to elicit views on which speaker etc. - just whether modern speaker technology has moved forward so much that replacement would be a better idea than refurbishing the SBL’s. Obviously the other consideration is the fact that upgrading would be far less expensive, but on the other hand possibly not such a good long term bet? Any contributions much appreciated.

Just buy a newer pair of SBLs.

I bought Hungryhalibut's Mk 1 pair about a hundred years ago, to replace my Linn Kabers. I then purchased a Mk 2 set, with the upgraded drivers - even better.

Posted on: 27 September 2015 by hungryhalibut

Mike - the SBLs you bought from me (the black ones) had MK 2 bass drivers, as well as new tweeters. Pukka MK 2 SBLs have the all over veneered cabinet, and sound a bit better than the original cabinets with the MK 2 drivers.

Posted on: 27 September 2015 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly

Ah!

Thanks for the clarification. The beech pair I have sound even better, though...

Posted on: 28 September 2015 by john s

Thanks for all the replies - I've always liked the SBL's and it looks like either a pair of Mk2's if I can find some or upgrades to the tweeter and crossover. Time for a bit more searching.

Posted on: 28 September 2015 by hungryhalibut

There's a well known Naim dealer who has a lovely looking pair of late MK 2s, with the all over veneer. Lovely if you like cherry veneer, that is.

Posted on: 28 September 2015 by Dave***t

Bear in mind that even late mk2 SBLs will be old enough that crossover and tweeter replacement could be recommended.

Could be worth keeping an eye out for a pair that's already had them replaced, if that's the way you want to go.

Posted on: 28 September 2015 by badlands

Dave***t(Quote)For what it's worth I had new crossovers made up (my old ones were old enough that they had A4 cables), but will probably leave the rest until I can consider some Ovators. Which will be a very long way off, but it's not like using SBLs is a hardship in the meantime.

Why would somebody want to go from SBLs to Ovators when the two couldn't be farther apart in the sound they produce? Is it just because they are Naim speakers, and you are assuming they would be the best match for your system without even considering other brands?

Posted on: 28 September 2015 by Dave***t

I said consider.

Yes, the fact that they're Naim speakers does make me think that there's a good chance they'll go well with my black boxes. They're designed to do so by the same people who designed the black boxes that I think are so great in the first place. I've never heard them, but that makes me want to at least try them out when the time comes.

Why wouldn't somebody want to do so?