NDX with and without nDAC
Posted by: aysil on 06 May 2011
I’ve been listening to my NDX for a few weeks now, both alone and with nDAC, and I think I am able to share my impressions now. Some friends on this forum were stating NDX should pass or fail on its own. I can say, not only that it passes, but in some respects it excels.
My first impression was already that I prefer the NDX alone. The reason became clear before long: NDX provides a very pleasing and easy listening experience, not tiring and not very demanding. First, it provides wonderful tone colors, especially in the midrange, not in the sense of added color, but it has the ability to convey and differentiate between the natural tones of instruments. For example, different wind instruments blossom beautifully with different colors in an orchestra like a pastoral spring scene. You can distinguish easily between the gut strings and metal strings of a guitar. On the other hand, nDAC tonal balance is rather on the metallic side. It emphasizes the metal strings of a piano whereas the NDX adds more ingredients from the resonances of the wooden body of the piano. Secondly, NDX is more fluid. I would not call it ‘soft’ because it has plenty of detail and resolution. nDAC has a sharper leading edge, which can be misinterpreted as higher resolution, but I doubt if this is natural. It may even be perceived as grain or slight ‘edginess’. It accentuates the edge more than the flow. nDAC’s higher resolution is in another area, and you understand this when you play a complex musical passage. When a big orchestra is playing in Tutti, nDAC never loses authority and brings about the different instrument groups in full clarity in space. NDX’ picture is a bit more blurred and the soundstage is a bit compressed between the speakers. nDAC soundstage is not only wider but also deeper. For soundstage fanatics, the nDAC is definitely the better choice. Thirdly, NDX provides a more easy listening session. Not that dynamics are lacking, on the contrary, the rhythmic drive and swing is wonderful, but some of the inner tension of the music seems to have been a little bit tamed. nDAC sounds more vivid and more upfront. When you compare them on the same volume level, you may wish to turn the volume up by NDX because of something lacking, and wish to turn the volume down by nDAC because something is in excess. This is partly due to nDAC’s stronger (and better controlled) bass fundament.
Is nDAC an upgrade to NDX? No, I would rather say, they are just two totally different dacs with two different sets of virtues and weaknesses. To make an analogy of their presentation, NDX is more communicative, like a musician who looks into the eyes of the audience from the first moment on stage; the nDAC on the other hand, is like an admired virtuoso who does not care about the audience. NDX alone is better for acoustical instruments and human voice, and for smaller ensembles; nDAC is better for larger ensembles and more complex music. Personally, if I were to choose between the two, I would be happier with NDX alone; but I can imagine many people will prefer the nDAC. It is a matter of personal taste and of synergy with the rest of the system.
What if you want the best of both worlds? You may try to spend ten times as much, but even then, it is not guaranteed. You know as experienced audio enthusiasts, that your selections are always based on some choices and some compromise.
The listening sessions that provide the basis of this write-up were made with both NDX and nDAC without external PS. It was simply easier to compare them ‘nu’, avoiding the complications of switching the connections of PS and additional warm-up periods etc. I can only say both devices profit substantially from connection to PS555, although not changing the basic sound characteristics. It would be interesting, though, if somebody else could compare them both with PS. Would they become more similar to each other, or would the differences be even more accentuated?
During these sessions, I used my HDX as source component. I used it both as S/PDIF digital source and as streaming server through ethernet network.
I am curious how differently, you will comment on your own experience with NDX and nDAC.
Hi AMA -
I agree with Aysil's comment about PS's. When I went from none to XPS2 to 555PS, I did not think the basic character of the DAC (its "house sound") changed.
IME, the XPS2 brought big increases in soundstage, separation of instruments, and clarity. The 555PS brought even more of all of that, plus added energy and drive (a result, I think, of richer, more articulate bass notes).
But in the end, I thought the DAC still sounded fundamentally like the standalone DAC -- punchy, transparent, and with very clear and natural sounding tones.
All just my opinion of course!
Hook
Hi, Hook, in my experience XPS was a very big leap. I already had my fingers dipped in many DACs by that time and initially I classified nDAC for its impressive jitter rejection ability rather than sonic performance. But XPS changed a lot. Didn't you find it substantially smoothed down the originally bright nDAC presentation?
Though it's still not as smooth as CDS3 or KDS.
BTW I wonder how big is the leap between XPS and 555PS?
Hi AMA -
Agree completely that the XPS2 added a lot to the DAC, but I do not recall "smoothness" being one of the ingredients. I thought the DAC was initially bright and edgy, but that ended after a couple of weeks of burn-in. As I said in my post above, the XPS2 made the DAC sound "bigger" to me (soundstage width and depth, more clarity, more air, etc.), but did not really change it from what I would describe as "bright" to "smooth". To my ears, it remain very energetic and punchy (in a good way).
But we all hear things so differently! Maybe it would be different if we were listening together, but comparing notes at a distance is very hard to do...
While the 555PS may not have been as big a leap as the XPS2, for me it might have been even more important because in addition to hearing even more increases in clarity, I also heard a dramatic improvement in the bass. This was important to me because my Harbeth C7's only go down to 46hz, and I wanted to make the most out of the limited bass they can deliver. With the 555PS, I was much more able to follow bass progressions on jazz albums (which is not always easy given their complex time signatures).
With your level of kit, I am certain your DAC would just love a 555PS! 
Hook
Hook
HI, Hook. My level of kit may easily enjoy the new KDS if it improves on bass comparing to old KDS
Did you ever consider Linn?
Hi AMA -
There is a Linn dealer in Minneapolis, but Linn is not their focus. For example, they don't carry turntables. But I did hear the old Akurate DS in an all-Linn system. This was back in my Nait XS days, and I thought the Linn sounded nice and smooth, but there was nothing about it that got me excited, or even mildly interested. May have been the Linn speakers, or it may have been the demo room. Not really sure. But I have not been back to that dealer since going further down the Naim path.
To be honest, I would never have been able to muster the courage (under any conditions) to plunk down $18k on a KDS, regardless of how it sounds. The only way I have been able to get to the DAC/555PS is through the upgrade path. First the DAC alone, then the XPS2, then HL/PL, and then finally, by taking advantage of my dealer's generous trade-in policy, I was able to get the 555PS. Am probably now up to the same level of spend as if I had bought the KDS in the first place, but the multi-step Naim path was a lot less stressful for me!
Unless Naim comes out with a reference DAC or network streamer, I have zero motivation to move to a new solution. I love what I am now hearing, and am convinced that I am getting all my C7's can offer. It was Stoik who posed the "saturation point" theory about audio purchases, and I believe I am there. My ears and brain and heart are 100% saturated by the sound the DAC/555PS is delivering. So even if the KDS is better, I am at the point where -- at least for the foreseeable future -- it really doesn't matter to me.
Am sure I will get upgraditius again at some point, but the DAC is well down my list of where I would look to next improve my system. First would be the speakers (am definitely going to try the Ovator 400's this summer). Then I might look at selling my 252/SC and buying a 552. Beyond that, I will wait to see if Naim produces an "NDS". If the Naim software gets better, and if the sound quality of this NDS exceeds that of the current DAC, and if it can be powered by a 555PS...I know, a lot of if's...then that would be a product I would be interested in.
Now in your case, and unless I am interpreting your comment incorrectly, it sounds like you have tried the 555PS with your DAC and were not impressed. If that is the case, then I do hope Linn's next KDS is exactly what you are looking for. And if not that, then maybe DCS or some other manufacturer. One thing's for sure -- there is certainly no shortage of fabulous sounding high-end network players being made today.
Good luck!
Hook
PS - Just remebered -- I will be taking a look at DSF-capable DAC's at some point. I bought a Korg MR1000 to record my vinyl. It comes with software to convert the DSD to PCM, but I am also planning to compare how a dac that decodes DSD directly will sound compared to the Korg's PCM conversions played back through the Naim DAC. There are two such dac's on my list: Mytek and Playback Designs. But regardless how this experiment turns out, Naim will remain my source for PCM playback.
PPS - Sorry to everyone for the long, self-centered, OT post! 
Hi AMA -
There is a Linn dealer in Minneapolis, but Linn is not their focus.
Hook, I guess Linn misses the opportunities in your place.
There should be something really magical in Minnesota if Blu was so obsessed with return after visiting Rio 
I watched it twice with my son (plain and 3D) and keep enjoying the soundtrack through my Naim system!
One weekend away, and so many replies!
Allen,
Thanks for your nice supportive words. Actually you have been telling about some of these differences on this forum without even listening to NDX. I am curious how you guessed or how come you knew. Do you have connections to Naim inner circles? Maybe you can tell us if Naim will surprise us any time soon with a new dac, possibly in the 500 series?
Steven Shaw,
It is an interesting question - the "difference between connecting the Hdx via spdif or upnp" (to NDX). There is a big difference between those types of connections. When you first hear the UPnP input, you get a 'wow' effect; you indeed hear more detail, more spacial information, and more air in a more extended stage. On the other hand, the information seems to be more coherent with the S/PDIF input (like the sound of the flute instrument and the breath of the flutist coming from the same source, not unrelated in space) and (interestingly) better timing. These remarks are just some first impressions; I have not done really serious listening to compare the connections. Moreover, I use a very good digital cable, but maybe not the ideal network configuration with 16m cable distance to the modem and the need to improve the system with the addition of a switch etc. But still, I believe, if you already have a good digital cable (some claim the ideal length is around 1.5m), S/PDIF connection may work as an alternative. You should hear yourself to decide. The differences between the compared dacs were consistent whichever connection was used, though.
AMA,
Your question about my matching the mbl transport with Kondo dac is off the topic of this post. So I would rather communicate with you in detail on this per email. But a short answer: yes, I preferred the Kondo dac after listening to both dacs you mention.
Ollix2,
"What is your opinion comparing HDX and NDX?" The answer to your question was given later on this thread by Ollix2 above. (oh, the same name!
) I completely agree with his description. I can only add that, although HDX alone is not bad, adding nDAC to HDX gave a feeling of clear upgrade and never an urge to go back. However, adding nDAC to NDX gave a feeling of improvement in only some aspects, but left me with an urge to go back. When I listen to NDX, I usually find myself listening until the end of the track, although my initial intention was just listening to the beginning of the track for some test purpose. Neither HDX nor nDAC has this quality of absorbing into the music and making one forget about the rest.
AMA and Hook,
Your long conversation about the possible effects of adding XPS or 555PS is a very interesting reading. Unfortunately, I don't have much to add at this moment. I have really done little auditioning with my 555PS.
Patrick (pcstockton),
No, I think you misspelled. The two systems compared were:
First case (HDX connected with UPnP to NDX):
1)HDX+NDX
2)HDX+NDX+nDAC
Second case (HDX connected with S/PDIF)
1)HDX+NDX
2)HDX+nDAC