NAP 300 powerful enough for KEF Blade?

Blade 2, yes, as the crossover seems to be a little more forgiving - Blade 1 requires a little bit more power IMHO. As always - don't expect to drive a concert hall-sized room; the smaller, the better.

Hi David!

Thank you for your reply!

This seems to be a hard question since not many people seems to have heard this combination.

I asked KEF UK and they replied that they have had very very good results with NAP300 and Blade 2 but they have never tried Blade 1 with NAP300. They also said that Blade 1 is a lot more demanding at higher listening levels due to 4 x 9 inch bass drivers. They recommended NAP500 for Blade 1 but was not sure… They had no practical experiences and was just estimating or guessing.

I asked Naim and they thought that NAP300 would be powerful enough. They had never heard that combination either and was also estimating.

I asked the Swedish distributor and he had never heard Blade 1 with Naim electronics at all.

It seems that a NAP300 would be on the lower limit or maybe even under it. It seems wisest to forget about the Blade 1 in my system. It was very tempting since the Swedish distributor is selling his ex-dem Blade 1 for a very good price. They also receive a lot of praise in the reviews that I have read and they look very cool.

Blade 2 would probably work a lot better in my system but that is unfortunately not an option if I have to pay full retail price.

/Marcus

Hi Marcus.

It really is all relative and something, which can't be decided upon until you have actually heard the speakers at the end of your 300 - IN YOUR ROOM ( a must at all times).

Also there is a difference between ' driving' a speaker to achieve a certain sound level- or the amplifier to be able to deliver enough current to allow the speaker ' to open up'. These 2 parameters do not necessarily walk hand in hand. Personally I do not think, that my Fact12s would open up with anything less than a 500. This design is a 3-way design with 4 drive units per speaker and an 84 DB sensitivity in other words power hungry. Hope you are keeping well Peter

I would be surprised, dissapointed realy if a €10500,- (current retail price DR version) amplifier struggles to power ANY speaker.

Its quoted 90watt @ 8ohms and should remain perfectly stable down to 2 ohm loads without losing performance. (so make that about 180watts per chanel for the Blade with sensitivity of 91dB/ and a minimum impedance of 3,2ohms)

Sure, it can handle more, but I wouldn't worry if I were you.

The San Francisco dealer on Van Ness had both Naim and Blade in the store a year ago.  They might have moved since then.  I never heard them together.  They might have some insight for you.

While I can't speak to the actual configuration in question....., the presented comparison doesn't always work that linear. It's one thing to have enough power to transfer the signal and have the speaker playing loud, it's another thing as to the level of control the amp can show on driving the speaker. Sometimes the first aspect works perfectly but the speaker only opens up with the next level of amplification as it isn't enough controlled.

Hi SmauG!

Thank you for your answer!

I see your point but I don’t think that price have anything to do with the driving capability of a power amp. You could build an amp with very expensive components with very low distortion that would cost a lot of money. That doesn’t mean that it would be powerful… The NAP300 is powerful but I still think that it will have problems controlling the most demanding speakers…

Yes, the spec for Blade is not very scary. I have read in several reviews that these figures don’t correspond well to reality. Sure, the Blades is easy to control on low listening levels but if you crank the volume up the four 9 inch bass drivers demand a lot of power to be controlled in a good manner.

The common knowledge seems to be that Blade 2 would work well with NAP300 but that Blade 1 is to demanding…

I don't know...

/Marcus

Hi Peter!

Thanks, everything is fine with me. I hope that you also are keeping well and are enjoying you beautiful system!

You are obviously right. The only way to be sure is to test the speakers in my system in my room. The reason I asked is to get a fair understanding if it’s doomed from the beginning or if it’s likely to work. I can borrow the speakers from the distributor but if I don’t buy them I have to pay for the transportation. It would be 300-400 GBP so I thought it could be wise to ask for opinions before I took the chance.

KEF Blade 1 is an impressive speaker from what I have read and would not have been an option for me at full price. Now when the distributor is selling his pair, that only have been used at a few audio events and shows, for less than 50% of retail I got a bit tempted…

I definitely see your point about the difference of driving a speaker and to get the speaker to open up. That’s a really good point!

From what I have read and after talking to KEF and the Swedish distributor I have decided to forget about the Blades. I have a fairly large room and on high listening levels the four 9 inch bass drivers is quite demanding and hard for an amp to fully control (I’ve been told). The risk is that I will end up with a speaker that is compromised by the power amp and I will feel tempted to buy a NAP500 and then I also need a NAC552 and so on… I don’t want to go there…   

I think that I have a good and balanced system and are not interested in upgrading any of the electronics. I think it´s easier to try to find a more efficient speaker instead…

A few weeks ago I tested Audiovector SR6 Avantgarde Arreté at home but I was not that impressed. Sure it had some strengths over my current speakers but they also had some attributes that I did not like. I have also listening to Ovator 600, Raidho X3 and D1, B&W 802D2 and Focal Scala V2 in stores but none of them impressed me in the store… It´s impossible to try every speaker at home but the ones that are impressive during a store demo can be worth evaluating at home. That’s my idea anyway…

Here in Sweden very few stores have high end speakers at home for demo so It’s hard to listen to a lot of them…

Two days ago I visited Marten Design and listened to their models Django XL, Getz 2 and Bird 2. I was impressed, especially by the Bird 2, and will likely try them at home to see if they work well in a Naim system. Perhaps I should write a few words about it here on the forum…?

Other interesting speaker could be: Focal Sopra No2, B&W 803 D3 and KEF Reference 5. None of them are available for demo yet…

/Marcus

Bert, thanks for your answer. This is something similar to what KEF told me.

For Blade 1 they would recommend NAP500...

/Marcus

I've just looked up the Virgo 25, never having heard of it, and I find that it's a very well reviewed and expensive speaker. My suggestion, for what it's worth, is that you should try a 552 instead of changing speakers. Back in the day, when I had a CDS3, 252, 300 and SL2s, I then changed to a 552. It is just so much better than the 552 that it's hard to describe. The music just floods out in a way that it doesn't with the 252. I reckon that if you just add better speakers to what you have, you will get more of the same. But if you get a 552 you will get something definitively better. The 552/300 is just a fantastic combination, and it will get the best from your NDS and your speakers. Give it a go - who wants speakers that are hard to drive anyway?

+1 more for NDS/552/300 -a fantastic and synergistic combination to these ears.

My nap300 powers my shahinian obelisk 1's and does sound great. Obelisks are 200w, 6ohm but drop to 2ohms and are renowned for being difficult to drive.

my issue is that I still have this nagging doubt that I'm not getting the best from my speakers so I'm currently looking at other amplification options that produce more current, mainly to satisfy my curiosity.

I concure with with the post that mentioned watts are not the only factor, current delivery is probably more important with challenging speakers.

Hi Knipester!

You wrote ”my issue is that I still have this nagging doubt that I'm not getting the best from my speakers…”. This is exactly the feeling that I don’t want to end up with…

I can fully understand the feeling. That’s why I will look for speakers that are easy to drive if I’m changing in the future.

/Marcus

HH and Oscar!

I can definitely see your point. The earlier in the chain you make an improvement the more musical rewarding it will be, right? I have found that myself when upgrading and I believe that “source first” is a good way of thinking to a certain extent. I reached NDS/XPS DR as a source before I moved on from my NAC202/NAP200 combination. By then I felt that my source deserved better amplification. With that source it was off course rewarding to change amplification. After changing my NAP200 to NAP300 (I also auditioned NAP250.2) I also realized that you can gain a lot from changing other components later in the chain as well, not only the source. The step up to NAP300 was surprisingly big to me. After adding the Super Lumina cables I really think that I have a rather good and balanced system. As well as source first I also believe in “no weak links” in the system is a good approach. I think for example that some of the standard Naim cables limited the system quite a lot, especially for 500-system users.

I read in a thread here on the forum that somebody suggested that it would be a better system to have a NAC252 + SL cables compared to a NAC552 with standard cables. I don’t know but he may just as well be right. The SL cables are really good!

Where are my weakest link now? I don’t think that I have a really weak link anymore but everything can always be improved, right? Perhaps my NAC252 is the weakest link and I would gain the most effect by changing to a NAC552. You may well be right about that…

The problem is that NAC552 is a bit too expensive for my taste (at least if bought new) and that my dealer don’t have a demo unit that I can try out. Here in Sweden it’s very hard to find a used one or an ex-dem at a dealer. I don’t know how many dealers in Sweden that have a NAC552 in the store. Maybe two or three at best. I shop at one of the biggest Naim dealers and they see no market for the 552 here in Sweden. The system that I have are the top products that they carry.

One of the reasons that I started to look for speakers is that my system is placed in a rather large room and when I play my system at loud levels the speakers can struggle a bit with the lower frequencies. I guess that my two 7 inch drivers per speaker is not enough when I want to crank the volume up to really high levels. It happens very rarely but it’s not very nice to have that limitation when you have such an expensive system (at least to me). I also think that more refined speakers could be interesting to try out…

I would say that upgrading the source often give more musicality for the system but I think that speakers are the components that could change the sound the most, if you understand what I mean?

I have tried a second 555PS DR for my NDS but I think that the cost was greater than the improvement. I would off course like to try the mythical NAC552. I have read several posts stating that the NAC552 is the best product that Naim makes and so on…

Next, I will try a pair of really good speakers, the Marten Design Bird 2. That will be very interesting!

/Marcus

You are lost when you have heard the 552.

Marcus, just to say that i heard the Kef Reference Blade 3's yesterday at the Audiobarn, driven by the 272/250DR, and it seemed to do just as good a job as with the smaller standmount versions i heard there previously. Also consider the demo room is huge, so it would seem they are quite easy to drive and even in such a large space, the amp never seemed to be stressed.

Hi Gary!

Thank you for your input!

Yes, I been told that Reference 3 and Reference 5 should be easier do drive than the Blade.

I’m sure the NAP250DR can drive the new Reference range very good.

What did you think about the sound? Did the 272/250DR + KEF Reference 3 sound any good? Did you compare the Reference 3 to any other speakers?

/Marcus

Hi Jonas!

That sounds very interesting!

I don’t know if I’m going blind but I can’t find an e-mail address in your profile…???

I have added mine in my profile now.

Please point out where I can find your address or send an e-mail to my address.

/Marcus

There was a review of the combo 282/300DR today in the German Magazine Stereoplay. It was a very favorable review the 300 ended at third place in the overall list of amps and the two before the 300 where both close to twice as expensive. The guys however indicated that the power was comparabale to 200 watts through a class D amplifier.

I suppose one thing that may play into the equation is if you were going to buy a new 300? There are some good second hand 500's on the market at the moment, so you could end up paying a similar amount of money and overcoming your problem?

i have only heard the Blade 1 s with Musical Fidelity power.  Very impressive demo but unfamiliar music.  Of course the Magico Q5 I heard upstairs the day before were better :-), but I digress.

I will do that forum thing and suggest yet another speaker.  If you like the Blade then the obvious competitor has to be Vivid.  The K1 is the easy to drive model.  My smaller B1s are supposed to be harder to drive but 60 watts of valve amp seems to be plenty to drive them well.  The 300 would do better still I assume.......well maybe not actually as I prefer 60 watts of valve to the 300watts into 4 ohms of my previous amp.

A fellow Audiophile in my town has the K1 with a Devialet ( the pizza box) and he says they can shake the house ( notably with SAM speaker optimisation engaged).  

ok, not very helpful on the Naim front, but I still think the Vivids are worth a look.