NDX Users

Personally, I think trying to put percentages on it is just daft and frankly meaningless.

2 would be better and is, IME, a worthwhile step up even with a non-DR XPS. 

As for 3, this may depend on whether you prefer the voicing of the ndac or the NDX - I prefer the latter even though objectively it is not really as good.

Impossible subjective question AKD

% is math & thats a bit more precise than is subjective.  

I'll come at the answer from another direction as I went thru the NDX experience. 

Starting with CDX2 & add a XPS is one of the better PSU upgrades,  its sonically very obvious a change for the better:  It turns a very good CDP into some a bit special, bass with real muscle, clear treble, wide & 3D sound stage.

Now changing to NDX;  it does not have the same in yer face terrier character of CDX2, its simply & very nicely more refined in all respects.  Adding a PSU brings more of everything, stronger in all areas with more detail & texture & a sound stage that is wider & carries a real natural presentation especially with voice & instrument positioning.  However it does not give the same level of change as it does with CDX2.  

I borrowed an nDAC with NDX/XPS & tried the XPS powering both NDX & nDAC.  It changed the presentation, but changed is not in my ears better.  I found the best combo was NDX ->.nDAC/XPS,  But I was not impressed enough to go any further,  like I said it changed the presentation but I am not sure it was better sonically. 

I've tried some other DAC's & the only one that brings any worthwhile improvements to NDX is Chord Hugo,  I am waiting to try a 2Qute,  but I'm taking my time & at the mo I might be tempted down the Chord route.

I have listened to theses  combinations with a uServe & SN2.  Here is a very brief summary:

#2 - as mentioned above - SQ is 'more of everything'.  If you like the signature of the NDX then the upgraded PS will bring it out even more.

#3 - I did this w/o the upgraded PS - so NDX & nDac only - I actually did not like the results.  I felt more removed from the music.

Your own ears are the ultimate arbiter.

Where is this question coming from? Are you indicating that obtaining any of these options is possible? If so I might be inclined to start with a bare NDX (assuming you like it better than non Naim alternatives - which you might not) and rather than add a PS right away, try and change the 202 to a 282.

An NDX/XPS2 is a really fine source indeed. I use this myself and have no plans to upgrade. Adding an nDAC later after you had the NDX (with or without the XPS2) for a while might be understandable (I stress 'might'). But going NDX/nDAC from the start seems meaningless. You are basically upgrading what is already a DAC with another DAC. If that is your thing then you might be better thinking about starting with a better source to begin with like a NDS.

I would consider adding an external DAC to any Naim streamer a method of extending it's life to avoid a larger upgrade.

Hi, although the NDAC is a major step up on performance over the NDX internal DAC and with the original 555PS beats the NDS for 99% of my music..(my reviews of this are searchable on the forum a few years back)  the NDX natively is a rather good performer and importantly quite a balanced harmonious performer. 

Given the above, I would concentrate on upping your NAC first. The 282 is a great advance over the 202, and the heart of a Naim system always appears to be the NAC.

Simon

Thanks guys for the advice...

Background Info:

I was using US > Ndac > XPS

Then, sold US for Bluesound Node (as temporary solution to use Tidal).

Now that Naim could do Tidal etc.

Decision time???

Options (narrowed down to):

Nac 272 + XPS (selling Nac202 + hicap + Napsc and Ndac) This is the most cost effective provided it is not a backward step in terms of sound quality.

{Hope to swap Nap200 for Nap250 in the next round of upgrade}

OR

Hugo TT + Non Naim Digital Source? (selling XPS + Ndac) This is a flexible open choice

{Point taken on Nac282 but not now}

i have heard bare NDX and also NDX + XP5PS, I found the improvement not marginal and went for this combination.  

I'd keep the XPS, sell the DAC, 202, napsc and Hicap and get a 272. With the change, you may be able to swap the 200 for a 250DR. Three boxes instead of six or seven. 

AKD, the Naim DAC is capable and a great performer - but in my experience it only really takes the cream with the 555PS - but you do need a transport to drive it and a system to appreciate it.

In the absence of that the 272 could be an opportunity. Yes it appears ultimately less performant than the Naim DAC -(between NDX and ND5XS grade from all accounts) but this might be of little consequence if the rest of your system cant appreciate the NDAC with a 555PS. It is ultimately all about system balance and synergy - and the NAC tends to set the pace and brings the sources and amps with it. There are clearly many satisfied 172 and 272 owners

Simon

Sounds good to me - must visit a dealer for a demo...

I'm not with you on the 272 Wat,  I listening in on a friends dealer demo - the 272 is nice,  but NDX beat it. According to Naim the 272 pre-amp section is = 282 level & that's what the dealer provided.  I am thinking that selling a 272 vs NDX is easy if you put the NDX on a low level pre.  

-  maybe just my suspicious mind (? might be a song in there somewhere)

The 272 was released at the beginning of the year.

How many times gave you demo'd it Mr Wat? How did it compare, using 'standard' cables, to the Bristol demo with full Super Lumina cabling, when it did sound very good, but of course the cables cost more than the 272!

To me it doesn't really matter if the NDX/282 is better than the 272. It's more about the number of boxes. You can max out a 272 with a single power supply, whereas with the other option you are looking at adding an XPS, and a Hicap, not to mention the napsc. Added to which, you don't need any poncy interconnects to join them together.

I'm more than happy to live without that last bit of sound quality to get a neat, tidy and simple setup. My 272 sounds great, and that's without the power supply. Sure a NDX/282 will sound better, but I'm through with having my front room looking like a Hifi shop. 

It's good to have a choice, after all.

HH is President of the Low Box Count Club (tm)

I am Vice President.

The dues are very reasonable.

Who else is "in?"

100%,  just what I have,  3 shelves for the kit with control buttons & displays, the rest is out of sight, including 2x PSU's & the multiway power sockets.  

The problem is the rack, why does it all have to go on an open framed rack - Fraim, Isoblue, etc.

Does a Fraim really improve the SQ of a PSU ? - really ? 

But enough,  this is thread subject drift.

For me, it's not just about having enough space, or enough cash. LED covered metal boxes connected to plastic coated spaghetti are pretty unappealing, but I put up with them because I like the music. If I could hide everything in a cupboard, I wouldn't care about the box count.

There is simple elegance in a small (small number of shelves) rack, with just a few black boxes displaying the green Naim logo.

That is attractive to many of us. 

Simple.

As well as fewer boxes, it's about fewer wires. All I need are two speaker leads, two mains leads, a din to xlr interconnect and an Ethernet cable. Even if I add an XPS all I need to add is a burndy lead, as the system will still need only two mains leads. 

The whole thing fits on a low stand, without the need for the tower of power, which looks rather too much like a 70s stack system for comfort.