Active 250.2's or Passive 500 for NBL's

Camlan 

i currently run NBLs with a 250 active system and I am very pleased with it. Moreover I first used it with a 282 with no issues. It also worth remembering that, as I understand it , NBLs were designed for active in the first instance. If you can have a listen do so.

Michael

. on the other hand I run a 552/500 into NBLs (with SL full loom cabling) and it is superb.

 

Also factor in all the extra levels of support Fraim or otherwise you will need for 3x250's...... and the cables to dress..... however the passive v active argument is well documented and it is a matter of personal choice .

 I agree this debate can go on forever, and it is a matter of personal Choice.

But lets be serious, the only true comparison is in one's own environment, not for hours at the Local Hi Fi Arena. But Listening to one's own choice of music, for months, or even years and then, and only then can one reflect which he or she preferred personal Choice.!  

I listened to Passive Briks, for years, then Bi- Amped Briks for years, and Finally Aktiv Briks for years. However, that was with LK 280's. The Aktiv Briks were the biggest game changer, just a certain ease, The Briks seemed to breath easier, and when called upon the 280's delivered that punch.  

Now I'm within the same environment, Naim Bi Amped Briks. That certain ease of operation not quite there as it was in the Active System. However, Naim Amps are just better to my ears More Punchier, Thicker, response time. I guess that's Prat.  Now Tri-Amped, 4 K for a New 250.2, any improvement, perhaps more head Room, In other Words I used to kick at 9.5, 10 o'clock.  Now I'm kicking at 8.5, 9 o'clock.  Improvement, Yes, 4K worth, No!  But this is how true comparison is done. Next step Naim Active Briks! 

Point n Case, That's a real comparison within one's own environment, then it becomes a matter of personal Choice. 

Now when I reflect back, The LK 280's appeared to be quieter than the 250's.   Perhaps that something to do with Naim massive transformers, I guess trade offs !!!! 

Just MHO, enjoy your Gear! 

I have really appreciated everyone's honest opinions and answers to my question.  It's hard where i'm at as my dealer doesn't carry a line of Naim inventory that he used to; so me doing a home demo is pretty much buying the equipment second hand and setting it up.  I guess worst case I can always re-sell it but kind of a process to go through.  

its Fun, it the aesthetic beauty of the gear, black boxes, Naim Fraim, Last, but not least it's the Sound, The Naim Sound. 

Enjoy the High, but be careful, highly addictive.  Just Ask Graham or DB!!!!! 

I think I'm going to take a run at making the active 250.2's happen.  Had a question about trying to stack all in one rack though.  Was wondering if this was a possibility:

Top Shelf-LP 12

Second - 282

Third - 250.2 with SNAXO on top

Fourth - 250.2 with HI-Cap for Snaxo on top

Last - 250.2 with Hi-Cap DR for 282 on top

Floor - Napsc

Side is the Lingo 2

Thank you!

That won't work on standard Fraim because there is not nearly enough room and in any event it's not exactly ideal. What rack are you planning to use?

That would be an absolute disaster. You can't just hung it all together in a heap and expect it to sound great. An active system is highly sensitive and needs very careful setting up. You need to establish a clear brawn and brain split. The snaxo in particular needs space around it. If you can't do it properly, you really shouldn't do it at all, in my humble opinion. 

I have to agree with that. If you are really stretching your budget here, it may be better to delay going active and spend the funds where you will get a bigger 'bang for your buck' at this stage. Have you considered a 252/Supercap, Fraim or if you are set on a power amp upgrade a 300, with the DR upgrade there should be a few on the market 'pre loved' . As HH says active is great but it has to be done right.

Me Again Mattchup! 

One Thing about the Forum, One can get a lot of valuable information, especially from those who have traveled the route you plan to travel.  Your job is to decipher the valuable information from the invaluable information from those who have not traveled the route you intend to travel.  

Hence, file away the good information and act upon, when time permits.

Also factor in all the extra levels of support Fraim or otherwise you will need for 3x250's...... and the cables to dress..... however the passive v active argument is well documented and it is a matter of personal choice .

282                 Snaxo

                       250.2

Cdx 2              200

Ndac               250.2

Hi Cap DR      SC 2

 

5 Tier Fraim, and the Napsc is on the floor under Fraim Base! That's 10 shelve 

 

And That’s Next Year! 

Then you’re Done look at your System. 

 

Source > Hi Cap DR > 282 > 3 x 250.2’s > Tri Amped NBL

 

Enjoy The above System, until you run into Snaxo 362, SC 2. & Burndy! 

 First count pieces of Gear in the short term, trust me slow down! Enjoy the High!

LP 12 

Lingo

Hi Cap DR

282

250.2

250.2

250.2

That's 7 shelves, However to allow proper spacing, you need 8, with the Napsc on the floor as far away as possible from the 282 and Hi Cap DR.

Then Tri Amp the NBL's That's what I'm doing with my Briks. 

{3 x 250.2 > Hi Cap DR > 282}  piece of cake, Simple, that's why Naim designed the Hi cap to allow for your upgrade path! 

Then Address the other issues, when time permits, such as:  

1st.    Shelving,  Going Active you need 9 shelves now, and 12 - 13 later.

          That's what makes Fraims and Fraim Lites nice you can add shelves later.

2nd.   Sell the Snaxo 3-6, and the extra Hi Cap

3rd.  Hit the 2nd hand market and search daily, for months for Snaxo 362 and SC 2 or SC 2 DR 

Sound Factor Tripod are classic racks that still do a good job and are not  Fraim expensive.

Well the Forum, has already confirmed this info. I giving you, slow down and enjoy your gear! 

Its funny, I can give advice, that I don't adhere to myself!

Wow!  

Without the help of a dealer, I'm afraid you may be in for some frustration here. Please don't underestimate the validity of previous comments re active set-up and ultimately a good sounding result.

If it were me, and used gear is what you are limited to, I would look for a second hand 552 and improve your LP12 with a service and a Radikal PS. Keep things passive for now. The 552 will change your listening experience  significantly, even with a single 250.2 passive. Just my .02, good luck!

ATB,

Mark

Active operation is not such a mystery as is sometimes made of it. Linn have been selling active speakers too, from the little 109 to the mighty Komri and 350, but without much ado about setup.

Going active means getting rid of the passive crossover, which is a Good Thing (TM). Individual drivers are not such difficult loads; it's the passive crossover which is the reason for a rollercoaster kind of impedance curve. Active also means spreading the burden of amplification onto more amps. And the benefits are perceptible without much wizardry.

All IMO of course.

Bingo! 

OP: jfritzen

Going active means getting rid of the passive crossover, which is a Good Thing (TM). Individual drivers are not such difficult loads; it's the passive crossover which is the reason for a rollercoaster kind of impedance curve

OP: Allante93

Even the Best & Most Expensive speakers Introduce Phase Distortion brought on by the XO.  

Perhaps it was because the 500 needs a lengthy run-in period. I seem to recall a magazine reviewing the 552 and the 500. They were very impressed with the 552 (which burns in pretty quickly) but didn't like the 500 (which really takes its time. I found the same thing with my pair of 500s... at one point I was even thinking of going back to 300s. It was just a case of being patient.

I experienced the same moving from 300 to 500. The 300 started a bit soft and dull and run-in to sound clearer, whilst I found the 500 started harsh, blunt and aggressive and run-in to softer rendition of deeper textures in music due to its higher resolution and control.

I thought something was wrong with my new 500 and was told by others who had gone through the same before me to 'hang-in' and it took more than a month before I was a lot happier and after three months it was stupidly better than my well run-in 300 was.

In my case I swapped 3x300 for 3x500 Active, so everything was somewhat heightened, as Active systems are more revealing of everything, including run-in.

DB.

I recently swapped out a 300 for a 500 powering my nbls.  I appreciate that my room isn't ideal for them but the difference has been huge in respect to the fullness of sound spectrum.  It seems to me that despite the 300 producing wonderful vocals and string sounds, etc. it wasn't able to comfortably drive the bass type instruments.  Very easy for me to say in retrospect, never having previously tried a 500.  It may be something to do with my room but I suspect that a 500 would represent an even larger jump for matchhup's 250.

Others have said this would be a mullet system however, I'm not so sure.  If you haven't got the voom-va-vo to drive your speakers well, changing the source or pre-amp aren't going to address this in the slightest. It will sound better, but the intrinsic lack of power to feed the drivers will remain.

If for whatever reason you have rack space limitations, provided you have the headroom for the NAP 500 box, I'd suggest this is a very sensible way forward unless you want to have a more comprehensive rethink on your components incl speakers.

Peter

 It seems to me that despite the 300 producing wonderful vocals and string sounds, etc. it wasn't able to comfortably drive the bass type instruments.

 

Talking Black Boxes here, the 250 is dandy, but the 300 I imagine is superior with the fact it introduces a separate PS, and A fan, just incase things get heated up.  And Believe it or not I have heard cases when even the 500 have went into thermal protection Mode. 

But northpole, that's the point, in an Active System the 250 can easily deliver the goods, it only responsible for driving one specific frequency range.  

And it also falls into the 1% category of Regulated Amps, Just as the 500. 

Now as many pointed out this debate can go on for decades, its personal choice, that is only brought on by the process that you just went through with swapping the 300 with the 500 within you own listening environment, where you had the opportunity to reflect back, the 500 introduced a huge difference in the fullness of the sound spectrum.

Now, only those fortunate enough, to have experienced  an Active System within their own environment, just as you have done, Can give the valuable information that is needed when one is making a decision whether to go active or not.  

JMHO & Thought on the Subject, Enjoy your 500. 

Allante93, lest your last post was entirely directed at me, just to be clear - my system is entirely passive and I have never even heard an active system hence totally unqualified to comment on same.

I also have zero technical knowledge and have not played my system hard enough to have ever heard fans engaging.  I generally listen to music at quite a low volume.  That's the way I like it, most days

I suspect that the 500 just has a lot more natural reserve of power at all volumes to feed the nbls bass drivers and fill out the sound, albeit in a very balanced manner.

I'm guessing it's the devil's own job trying to set up a comparison of 3x250 v 1x500 at home or even in a dealers to help inform the OP's decision making.  Perhaps slightly irrelevant but I recall a year or three back reading here about people experimenting with active and passive and also deciding with an active system, which driver to feed with the 500 (the others in that active set up were 250 I think) the latter decision proving difficult such was the superiority of the signal fed from the 500.

The idea of active has long held a fascination for me but one to read about, not actually roll up my sleeves and try to implement - I'm much too lazy for that!  Kinda sums up where I am with this subject - it would be interesting to hear nbls fed by active 250s, but I suspect much easier and less time consuming plumping for a single 500.

Peter

north pole: (Peter)

No it wasn't directed at you, However, I was trying to give praise to you.  But as you can see I'm no writer, also I have no Technical Knowledge.  However, Both of us can pass on valuable information, based upon our experience with Naim, within our listening environment.  Yours was valid & obvious, The 500 most definitely an improvement over the 300 within a Passive System.  But this is the never ending debate Active vs Passive, I was merely trying to point out that the OP objective is to decipher good information from those that have traveled the Path, he wishes to embark.

Passive 500 vs Active 250's in this post!

Originally post by Michael 

October 1, 2015 9:52 AM

 

. on the other hand I run a 552/500 into NBLs (with SL full loom cabling) and it is superb.

 

Also factor in all the extra levels of support Fraim or otherwise you will need for 3x250's...... and the cables to dress..... however the passive v active argument is well documented and it is a matter of personal choice .

 

Hen's teeth eh.... ooooh my spare set of NBL crossovers in the loft are turning into an investment it would seem !!!

 

Sorry, If I came off as attacking you! the key wording in the above quote is personal choice.

based upon one's experience within their environment!  

No harm intended, I'm just an arm chair Naim QB, who has traveled the Linn Brik Passive System upgrade path to a Full Blown Linn Aktiv System!  Linn XO went out, Linn Karin went out!

Now I'm pursuing a Naim Brik Active System.

Naim is expensive, 2nd hand is my only option at this stage of life. 

Cdx2 / Hi Cap Dr / 250.2 / 200 / 250.2 / PMS Passive Tri Amped Briks 

Next stop Active, That's it personal experience within the same listening environment, which reflects my personal choice. 

I really enjoy the Forum, You Guy's have created this Arm Chair QB, never no harm intended! 

Out 

Absolutely no offense taken - I wanted to make sure no one thought I had any knowledge or experience of an active system in case that would skew any perception of any opinion I had expressed!

Peter