New to naim and forum. Please help get it right.

Posted by: Crabby on 07 October 2015

Bonjour all
French national living in beautiful south east England. Heard about naim a decade ago when a naim friend got me the bug (he bought SU with unitiserve)

Wanted to introduce myself. I am going to take the plunge after a decade of just testing and looking/reading.
I have in my sight a qute2 with kef ls50 on custom design stand. A nap 100 later when finance available. No idea of cables but perhaps tellurium q or chord epic/odyssey. My room is small and budget smaller. Can get all the above for 2k (1750 for qute2 and ls50).
Read lots of input in this forum. Don't agree that qute can't drive ls50 and the nap100 will certainly improve things.

Beside saying hello to all of you, will appreciate feedback on cables and anything that could improve such setting and protect it (conditionner?)

If you really think I could do better or should not make the move now for any reason, be my guest but that's pretty much where my heart and purse is. Would love an SU but too much for me. For my fifties perhaps :-)
I always liked the qute as you can build on it. Most important, I love the sound and works for me more than anything else in that price range and sometimes above. Hegel interested me but naim ecosystem/help/network is a winner.  The nap100 is a joy and sometimes I wonder if that's not what I should buy and link it to a cheap streamer/pre-amp. Merci in d'avance for your comments, patience with me and keep well

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
Originally Posted by Huge:

+1 Mike-B's comment.

 

I found the same (although my box has CM and DM chokes, but NO capacitors).

 err um ???? Huge, I can't see how that would work & what the CM & DM chokes actually do apart from adding impedance.

Without the caps its not a C&D mode noise filter as there are no paths to shunt the noise - X-caps across L&N shunt differential mode noise,   Y-caps across L&E shunt common mode noise.

Interesting tho', if it works on SQ terms, then OK; but it raises another string of questions on mains supply impedance  !!!!  

   ..........  oh no !!!   not another cable debate !!!

Precisely.

 

It just increases the source impedance of the HF interference signals carried in the mains, this allows the amp's own RFI protection measures to work more efficiently.

 

I agree that of itself it's not a filter as such (unlike L-C filters), but it doesn't overdamp the SQ either.

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Ermm, a series inductor is precisely a filter... No issues at all and is usually a very effective remedy  for HF in band noise for a given load. The capacitor in a LC filter just forms a reactive potential divider. The load itself, such as a primary transformer winding with a series inductor is just as capable if not better. Remember filters don't need to shunt HF noise into a load, they need to impede it.. 

Simon

 

 

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Mike-B

Gents,  sorry but I have not made myself too clear on this - I'm not questioning why a series inductance is a filter.

Huge,  my question is why use CM & DM chokes to achieve a series inductance - the CM has both L&N wound on a common core whereas a DM has L&N wound on separate cores - what does one of each do compared to say two of the same or a bigger single choke  -  i.e. is one type theoretically more effective than the other in this application.

 

Simon, specific to differential mode & common mode noise,   each require a different filter solution,  & both need capacitors before & after the inductor(s) to shunt the noise between the lines and to earth.

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Crabby
Originally Posted by hafler3o:

       
Originally Posted by ClaudeP:

... first, almost nobody uses sound conditioners or filters because they have a negative impact on the sound; second, Naim gear is designed to be left on all the time, except when there's a firestorm or when they are to be left unattended for days. There are more, but this a good start I think.

Agreed, you can add mains conditioners etc to your Qute but it is likely to lower SQ. Whether the effect will be heard on a Qute2 I'm not sure, but it will certainly affect more resolving kit. I don't use any 'protection' on my kit, but do on the PC, NAS, switch etc. A UPS might be worth getting, and I've never bothered switching anything off despite some spectacular lightning storms in our area. Chances are your kit will be on and you will be out when the lightning strikes anyway.

 

Stick to the supplied cables. Get yourself an unswitched MK socket where you plug in the Qute. I wouldn't bother with a Powerline until you get a SuperUniti, and get a demo first (£500). Think about a nice dedicated spur for the hifi. I recently installed my own and it has definitely altered the sound, mostly to the better (getting used to a fattened bass!)


       

Much appreciated. What is a UPS? (Multi socket device)
What is ubswitched MK socket?
I believe that's what the Hifi gentleman in Belgium was trying to tell me. No power-line, too expensive for me. To be honest, I was more thinking into investing into a good multi socket electricity with good fusible (switch) and some basic cleaning.
Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by Crabby:
Much appreciated.   What is a UPS? (Multi socket device)
What is ubswitched MK socket? 

Hi Crabby,  a UPS is a Uninterruptable Power Supply.  Its a device that has a small 12vDC battery & is able to instantly switch the power from the 12vDC battery into 230vAC when the mains power is lost (115vAC in USA).   Most also have significant spike protection via an isolation transformer when running on mains power.  They are almost always used with NAS in our world.  In my system I also have mine powering the phone & broadband (wireless) so that in the event of a power failure I don't loose the phone call & am able to save any work in progress on my PC & shut-down safely. - a www search will show you a few examples

Living in Belgium I am not surprised you don't know an unswitched MK socket,  this is a UK standard (13 amp) power socket.    

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
Originally Posted by Crabby:
What is ubswitched MK socket? 

 

Living in Belgium I am not surprised you don't know an unswitched MK socket,  this is a UK standard (13 amp) power socket.

I assumed Mr. C was a French national living in S.E. England, but maybe I'm reading the wrong quote?

 

I mentioned the MK socket as Naim kit comes with a nicely polished (inside and out) MK [manufacturer, like Legrand in France] plug. A matching MK socket (available with and without a series switch, you want unswitched to avoid an unnecesary extra contact area) will mate well and provide a lifetime of enjoyment!

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Mike-B

.......   hmmm   ????   I might well be wrong on the Belgium thing hafler3o

But wherever he is living,  he now knows what is an unswitched MK socket

And for what its worth I am an avid MK fan as they are the best available in UK & they are not covered in rare earth metals & dipped in snake oil.

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Crabby
Thank you all. Makes sense and I learned something today
Posted on: 14 November 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

 

And for what its worth I am an avid MK fan as they are the best available in UK & they are not covered in rare earth metals & dipped in snake oil.

When I moved house, out came the screwdriver and out came the MK sockets, obviously I kept the cakky ones to plop back in. Of course the best of the best MK sockets can be obtained from the Screwfix merchants opposite the Naim factory!

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Crabby
Originally Posted by hafler3o:

       
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

 

And for what its worth I am an avid MK fan as they are the best available in UK & they are not covered in rare earth metals & dipped in snake oil.

When I moved house, out came the screwdriver and out came the MK sockets, obviously I kept the cakky ones to plop back in. Of course the best of the best MK sockets can be obtained from the Screwfix merchants opposite the Naim factory!


       

Ok, i Better ask the question and be an idiot at least once. If I follow you right, naim
Provide an MK plug. I then have to go buy an MK socket from screw fix or something. I will google it to try understand what you mean. I live in Kent but listening to you, I wonder if I really do :-)
Posted on: 14 November 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by Crabby:
Ok, i Better ask the question and be an idiot at least once. If I follow you right, naim
Provide an MK plug. I then have to go buy an MK socket from screw fix or something. I will google it to try understand what you mean. I live in Kent but listening to you, I wonder if I really do :-)

No you don't have to (all uk plugs will fit uk sockets) but getting matching brand unswitched socket(s) can be a cheap upgrade (2 out of 3 dealers recommended it) plus you can make sure the wire screw terminations are well secure (alternating current produces a lot more physical vibration in wiring than people give it credit for).

 

bon nuit / ecoute!

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by Crabby:
Originally Posted by hafler3o:

       
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

 

And for what its worth I am an avid MK fan as they are the best available in UK & they are not covered in rare earth metals & dipped in snake oil.

When I moved house, out came the screwdriver and out came the MK sockets, obviously I kept the cakky ones to plop back in. Of course the best of the best MK sockets can be obtained from the Screwfix merchants opposite the Naim factory!


       

Ok, i Better ask the question and be an idiot at least once. If I follow you right, naim
Provide an MK plug. I then have to go buy an MK socket from screw fix or something. I will google it to try understand what you mean. I live in Kent but listening to you, I wonder if I really do :-)

While you're at it, buy a length of the fattest twin & earth cable you can get, and get an electrician to instal a dedicated mains circuit, using the MK sockets, for your HiFi gear. 

Posted on: 14 November 2015 by Mike-B

+1 hafler3o,  no you do not need to match MK plugs with sockets

The best of the various sockets (IMO) is the MK "Logic",  they are available as single or double & various other options mostly no use to us hifi nuts.

All the MK plugs are good,  Naim use the excellent standard hard plastic type,  some (incl me) rate the rubber/neoprene "Toughplug".    

 

For what its worth I use a mix of  ........... 

MS HD Power in the MK wall socket to the 8 way power strip (with 4x MK Doubles)

BG Permaplug on both the SN & the NDX/T-XPS cables

MK Toughplugs on NAT-05 & TC-III (SN PSU) & the other minor stuff 

The MS & BG plugs take the large diameter cable I use on the power strip & amp,  not really possible with any of the MK's .

All the plugs have silver plated pins as do the IEC320 plugs

Posted on: 15 November 2015 by Crabby
Thank you all for this. I will share some pics when I get my beginner system :-)
I was considering also a good multi socket with filter. Guess since no one mentioned it, not really a good investment...
Good we to all and Merci again for being so helpful
Posted on: 15 November 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Ermm, a series inductor is precisely a filter... No issues at all and is usually a very effective remedy  for HF in band noise for a given load. The capacitor in a LC filter just forms a reactive potential divider. The load itself, such as a primary transformer winding with a series inductor is just as capable if not better. Remember filters don't need to shunt HF noise into a load, they need to impede it.. 

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon,

 

Your OCD + my pedanticism...

 

The series inductor isn't a filter of itself, but the series inductor + the load is a filter.  You were right later in the post!   Just to be clear .