The destabilising effect of Tidal

 

but probably not sexy and cutting edge enough!

 

 

Originally Posted by dzambolaja:

Originally Posted by Clive B:

I suppose the title could have been 'The destabilising effect of streaming', because it's not just Tidal, but I am sure it's true of any remote streaming service. I didn't bother with the earlier update introducing Spotify owing to concerns over its reduced SQ, so update 4.4 is my introduction to streaming proper (as opposed to streaming from the hard drive in the NS01). It is only now dawning on me how Tidal could well change my record buying habit assuming, of course, that I continue with it beyond the 90 day free trial period.

 

OK, I don't like the gaps it inserts between tracks, especially in continuous operatic pieces, for instance, but really that's nothing like as bad as breaks at the end of an LP side, so I am sure I could live with that. The benefits seem to outweigh any disadvantage I've discovered so far.

 

My wife suggested that I'd just use it to try before buying, but apart from those albums I want to buy on LP for more serious listening, why would I ever need to buy anything on CD again? It would immediately address the storage issues. 

 

I've 'wasted' this morning and half this afternoon sampling numerous recordings of Wagner's 'Das Rheingold' and am currently enjoying Gergiev's excellent version. Until this week I would have had to buy it based on reviews and hope for the best. But do I really need yet another Ring cycle? If I stay with Tidal, probably not.

 

I've just got to kick the CD buying habit. And that might be more difficult to do than it was to write. 

 

So for me, Tidal might turn out to be life changing. But at least I'll still be able to buy vinyl records! And then I really can try before buying. 

Why don't you just try iRadio?  It has been available on Naim streamers ever since and the sound quality of many stations is superb.

 

And is free for use.

 

Because there's all the difference in the world between listening to someone else's choice of music for you, and choosing your own. A lot of the critics of streaming just don't seem to get this point. Streaming is like having your own record collection, but with millions of discs to choose from, whenever you want.

I have been thoroughly enjoying Tidal ( and Spotify before) through my Naim system, have tried a lot before I bought, and in many cases just didn't end up buying.

My CD purchases have dropped over the last 6 months, no question.

Like all the other posters in this thread it has certainly made me consider my access to music and how the future may be for me.

Ive still got a couple of things that I'm still struggling to reconcile.

Firstly for those amazing tracks I hear where I may in the past have bought the album on the back of it ( only to be disappointed by the rest of it) or may in more recent times have downloaded the track only, I've been doing neither since Spotify/Tidal.

No problem as long as I keep up my subscription, because I simply add the tracks to a playlist of great individual tracks.

But what still makes me uncomfortable is if I change from Tidal, or my  Circumstances change and I can no longer afford £20 per month.

I lose all of the access to my Playlist and access to those albums saved under My Music.

Im then left with the dilemma of how I'm going to get all these tracks back into my collection.

Similarly if I never buy another CD again but for whatever reason I have to move away from streaming Hi Fi services, I'm left with nothing and I have to somehow track back to buy all the albums I really enjoyed.

I think basically I'm of the wrong generation to fully embrace it.

The younger generation will have no problem as that is all they have ever known, and when they have enough money, if SQ is important I'm sure they will move this way.

For me though, I think I will always be a 'hybrid' as I don't think I'm ever going to completely give up the purchase for ownership of physical or download media.

Definitely provokes thought, can't see me giving up CD Quality streaming services at the moment though.

Interesting and thought-provoking thoughts all.

I am enjoying 'playing about' with Tidal and, at this early stage, believe that it might become an addition to, rather than a replacement for, any of my current 'platforms'.

I think that there is an element of the collector of physical formats in many of us - this is my response to my wife when she asks "why all those albums, cd's and even tapes when you have everything ripped to your UnitiServe?" Tidal, for her, just adds another addition to the list.

I suggest that the increasing numbers of expensive box sets with lavish packaging/books/memorabilia (the Led Zep reissues, for example) might support this 'collector' theory.

And of course, we have the recent news from the parallel universe of books - haven't Waterstones just announced that they will stop selling Kindles to find more shelf space for good old-fashioned books?

I share the worry of other posters about throwing in my lot with the streaming service providers - what happens if my circumstances change and I can't afford to subscribe or, what if they merely pack up shop and close down? Indeed a friend who is closer to the music industry content-providing end than many of us, has reservations that many, if any, of the streaming services' business models are sustainable in their current form.

So for now, I'm planning to embrace it all and, most importantly, enjoy the music!

I wonder how musicians (and the people they support) will survive. I don't see how they will be able to produce any music if there is no money.

And I live in two countries. No way am I paying twice.

It certainly is very convenient and although I just tried it outlast night for a couple of hours I'm blown away by the sound quality on some/most of the tracks. Not sure why .. I'll have to explore that some more. 

I too would like to know how fair it is for the musicians. One would hope that as it's run by musicians it's a better deal for their colleagues. Or am I too naive?

Anyone know I get the voucher for the 3 month trial?

Thx,

Tony

I "was" interested in Tidal. But its a corporate w@ank off and a waste of time, next

Assuming you are a new subscriber, you sign up via the new version of the app. 

Martin Zero wrote:

"I "was" interested in Tidal. But its a corporate w@ank off and a waste of time, next"

Not a particularly illuminating criticism of the service! Can you explain why you 'were' interested in Tidal, and why you now think it's a waste of time.

I was very sceptical, but having used the service over the last few days via both Naim and Linn streamers, I have been very impressed both by the SQ and the seamlessness of the integration on both platforms.

I have been subscribing to Spotify Premium for 'Discovery' purposes, but will now be tempted to pay the extra for Tidal when the free trial expires.

For me the core of a collection is still what I own. The streaming is for me only used to explore new music which I might want to buy. Nothing more nothing less. I am not yet on Tidal - so perhaps it changes when I will have it on my main system.

Thx

I signed up via the web while I was updating my su. Any other options?

I would agree with you if we were talking the kind of SQ delivered by Spotify. But Tidal really holds its own against ripped CD quality (although admittedly a little behind). IMHO the SQ is good enough to be considered as a legitimate alternative source for maybe those albums that you are interested in but not motivated to buy in CD form or downloads.

Would be interested if your views change over the potential role of Tidal when you have heard the SQ available from it.

Tidal is starting to play a bigger role in my listening sessions but I have still not made up my mind about it long term and of course attitudes will change when the free trial is over and you have to pay £20/ month. Is it worth double that of Spotify - probably but time will tell.

This is my first proper foray into streaming and I am pleasantly surprised by the sound quality, I agree its not quite up to wav cd rip quality I use but pretty darn close so on the SQ front TIDAL scores very well indeed I have always been sceptical of steaming services, I tried Deezer for a short while but just hated the software, maybe its me but I just could not get on with it at all with Tidal is just so much simpler to use, very user friendly.

Will I stop buying cds and vinyl, probably not but I am really enjoying exploring new artist and old stuff that just passed me by the first time around, I love collecting and that probably wont change but I am loving being able to listen to new stuff in hi quality.

Still not sure I will pay the £20 pcm but having said that the other half has downloaded the app and is enjoying listening on the Sonos system at the other end of the house and have also got the app on my Samsung note so bearing all this in mind I may well be tempted when the free 90 day trial runs out, time will tell but for now it defiantly gets the thumbs up.

If you look beyond the headline, the issue was not so much about e-book sales, but rather Waterstones decision to stock Kindles in the first place. According to Amazon almost all Kindles are sold directly by Amazon. 

I did try listening to iRadio when I (almost) considered selling my tuner. Unfortunately even the HD version of BBC Radio 3 was poor SQ compared with the NAT01. I decided it was worth spending ~£430 to have the NAT01 serviced instead - still the best source I own. The only problem with radio though is that you don't get to choose what is being played, but occasionally thats perfect when I'm doing other things. 

I think I've found a way of using streaming services that ticks all the boxes for me. Since I subscribed to Deezer Elite I found that I didn't play CDs at all (CD transport now in attic) and hardly play the files on my NAS (through my ND5-XS). I just wallow in the huge selection now available to me. However, if I find something that I really like I'll buy it on CD (used from Amazon if I can) and rip it to the NAS. I'll keep the CD as a backup too; even though the NAS is backed up, I've had hard drives fail on me too many times to be comfortable.

This way I own everything that's important to me whilst loving the endless variety provided by streaming services.

I've been giving Tidal a pretty thorough grilling. As I think everyone will acknowledge, the Naim implementation is fantastic. I have a bench mark 500 rock/pop tracks. Deezer Elite has 490 of them, Tidal has 482. Of 65 classical works that  I listen to regularly on Deezer, Tidal had them all, and by the same performers. So Deezer has the edge, but the SQ of Tidal via Naim is somewhat superior to Deezer Elite via Sonos and into the Naim DAC. As a service I probably prefer Deezer; it's revamped iOS app is very good and I enjoy their "Flow" feature (like Artist Radio on Tidal but tailored to you individually by analysing your favourites). So hopefully Deezer Elite will follow. Of course, Qobuz is the favourite for classical and jazz catalogue, although sadly I did suffer with technical issues and poor support.

@Graeme MacArthur Comparing the SQ of Deezer Elite and Tidal on Sonos I feel Deezer Elite comes out on top because it conveys a better sense of depth while at the same time retaining an airy quality I feel Tidal lacks. 

Have you had a chance to compare Tidal and Deezer Elite on Sonos?

No, Greg, not as yet; although that's currently the only way to make a fair comparison, so I shall in the next few days.

Of course, the other thing in favour of Deezer is the gapless playback ability: very important, especially in opera. Somewhere else in this forum someone was chastising Naim for the lack of gapless playback when Linn had managed it. I thought that gapless playback was down to the streaming service rather than the playback equipment. In fact Tidal apologise for this on their website and say that it is an important work in progress, so I'm not sure how Linn could have got around it, if indeed they have.

If you google "Is Tidal gapless on a Linn DS" you should get confirmation. Linn were way ahead of the game when it came to streaming with gapless playback - their Openhome extensions to the DLNA protocol delivered gapless playback years ago when the competition couldn't. And Linn still are ahead - naim's Muso doesn't do gapless playback of anything seemingly, let alone Tidal.