FM Tuner on Uniti2

You will need the external aerial for a NAT 0x anyway so I would do that first.  The built in FM/DAB unit does get fairly mixed reviews. Some people think it is great and some are less impressed at its ultimate SQ. but if you have it already in your Uniti 2 then an external aerial really us a no-brainier next step.

best

David

For FM/VHF, if it is important for you, then in my experience DAB aerials simply are not much use, and you should get a proper FM/VHF aerial.

Only you can decide if £120 is justified, though it will sought out your reception of FM radio.

No decent tuner works very well without a really satisfactory aerial of exactly the right sort.

It is as well to remember that not all FM/VHF broadcasting is really fine enough to stand the resolution of a quality radio set though, and even the best radio cannot make a badly compressed and distorted broadcast sound anything but dire. I have never found any popular music station that justified the effort to set up a really good radio as they actually are more revealed as terrible, the better the radio set-up.

I have found only two stations worth the candle - being Radio Three on live broadcasts, and Radio Four on their beautifully produced drama productions. And there are days when because of atmospherics even then the quality can become annoying. But at its best and on the good days [most days] it is the most compelling of sources. 

Currently my venerable Leak Trough Line tuner [circa 1960/1961] is in for repair, and I am looking forward to it being even nicer than before it went fuzzy about three weeks ago. But even that quite forgiving tuner [and the best of its day] cannot rescue a poor relay.

I commend your thoughts about getting a good radio set sorted out.

ATB from George

The FM tuner in my 272 is excellent on Radio 3 and 4, and I say that having owned on 01 in the past. As ever, you need a good roof aerial to get decent sound. We have a standard five element, but we have a clear line of sight to Rowridge on the Isle of Wight. 

The Magnum Dynalab ST-2 works well enough and you can use it indoors, thumbtacked to a dorm wall in the case of our UQ2, with very good results.

What aerial is good enough is all about the strength of the broadcast signal where you live.

The Magnum Dynalab that Skip mentions is a half wave vertical whip with a gain of 2.5 dB.  The 5 element Antiference aerial is directional and has a gain of 9 dB which would translate to a lot more signal at the Naim tuner.

A key point is also to get the aerial sufficiently far away from the electronics that it doesn't pick up any radiated rf signals from the Naim unit.  I found that whereas I could get enough signal into a Unitilite where I live with a wire hanging from the aerial socket, when I tried that with my SuperUniti, it raised the noise floor of the FM signal very significantly and I had to resort to an external aerial for that.

DAB aerials are not much use for FM, whereas a vertically mounted FM dipole can work with both provided its a strong signal area.

DAB is vertically polarised only,  whereas FM from a main transmitter will be both vertical & horizontal (mixed) polarised.  

If you are using Winter Hill that gives me a clue you are on the Lancs coastal plain & because Holme Moss is quite a few miles away,  you might be better consulting a local installer as they will know the best FM transmitter you should be using.

Holm Moss is mixed FM (V&H) & the BBC stations are a massive 250kW

DAB has only two MUX,  Digital One & BBC National,  4.7kW & 5kW

Winter Hill is a relay to fill in the hill shadow off Holme Moss across the Lancs coastal plain.

It is a low power FM around 4kW

DAB carries four MUX  Digital One & BBC National, both with 10kW.  Plus CE Manchester & Bauer Central Lancs,  both lower powered & directional.  CE Manchester is 0.25kW for the city & surrounds only,  Bauer is directional from WH towards Wigan, Preston, Southport & Blackpool.  

I have a Uniit2 and following the recent thread about George's Troughline my interest in FM was piqued. So living in line of sight of Wenvoe I decided to lash up a vertical indoor dipole (blue-tacked and masking-taped to the hidden side of a cabinet) and can wholeheartedly vouch that FM on Radios 2,3 and 4 is much better than either iRadio or DAB. I can't hear any background hiss, but it is a powerful transmitter and I can see the mast from the house! Well worth a punt I'd say. As Mike states above, the aerial also picks up the DAB stations.

Thanks for the advice.

I live near the coast between Liverpool and Southport and Winter Hill is visible if I drive to open fields around half a mile from where I am now so even though Winter Hill is a low power transmitter I'll aim my new aerial toward that. I reckon I'll get a good strong signal so I'll probably go for a Three Element. Now I don't listen to DAB that much because it's so awful but if I do install an FM only aerial then i should be able to get most of the DAB stations anyways.

Mike..

Nice to read that you have FM/VHF going nicely. At its best the medium is superb.

My Trough Line is in for repair - but at fifty-five years old, I can accept that!

I am looking forward to it coming home. I have an annual ritual of listening to the Remembrance Sunday service from the Cenotaph. So long as it comes back by then, I’ll be happy!

Best wishes from George

George, just out of interest where have you sent your Trough Line for repair?

Regards Graham.

One Thing Audio in Coventry. A google search soon finds their contact information.

Really they service Leak Trough Lines, and Quad ESLs. Their ESL service is second to none, and I guess that they will make the Trough Line as good as new!

It is good to see Naim still including FM/VHF tuners in their newest machines ...

ATB from George

Winter Hill is 4kW & at about 20 miles over flat terrain from you,   a 3 element is good for that.

Don't skimp on the coax,  go for a satellite grade,  WF100 is what I use 

Good to read people trying proper aerial like dipoles, fullwave loops (for strong signal areas) and yagis for weaker signal areas. Yagis can also be good for managing reflections and trimming interference... It's not just about distance to transmitter however. The more elements a Yagi has the more directional it becomes, the narrow the forward lobe beam becomes and the greater the back rejection becomes to avoid interference... A small Yagi, like three elements or dipole might suffer more with multi path reflections from nearby tall buildings, trees and the like... This smearing will typically  make the stereo decode noisier or reduce the effectiveness of stereo imaging...

A DAB aerial won't work well on the 88 to 108 MHz VHF band as the DAB aerial will be out by upto 400%.... The frequencies are completely different ... You probably might as well use a metal coat hanger for the same results...

Mike, it might do, but so might a coat hanger. Do the maths and the gain calculations... You are right off half wave resonance with DAB frequencies on the 88 to 108 band, so you could use any non resonant antenna. 400 MHz on a 100 MHz antenna will also have a very poor impedance matching point.. And so coax losses will be high with the antenna unless you use a transformer... Of course if the signal is strong enough then this doesn't matter as any non resonant whip will work..

edit: whoops Mike your post has vanished?

Simon,  sorry I misread you & have zapped my post

A vertical FM dipole does work on DAB in a strong/medium signal area,  but not a DAB dipole on FM as you rightly said

Mr Paws

I’d recommend an FM Omni directional aerial, I doubt you’d need anything better for the U2. Maybe a NAT05 would justify something better.

I live in sight of winter hill and used one with creek and harmon kardon tuners with no problems. Picked up strongest signals from Holme Moss but also adequate when listening to Merseyside and Manchester stations. (I live between Liverpool and Manchester).

In saying that I think I must live in radio and TV hotspot. I have an analogue TV aerial pointing at winter hill and an FM Omni directional, both on the roof next to each other, both cables come into my house at the same spot and I don’t know which is which.

Whichever aerial I plug into my Digital TV, I get a perfect picture. I’m sure technically this shouldn’t happen, but it does.

You must be pretty close to me Fatcat, I'm also between Liverpool and Manchester, in Haydock and have few problems with reception at all

Simon, to expand a little on this left over from last evening:

A half wave 88-108MHz (FM) dipole is not far off correct for a full wave 175-229MHz (DAB).

I accept a full wave dipole is not ideal & using 75ohm coax adds more issues, but in this case for practical purposes it worked just fine.

I made the calculation (below) & used it when I changed an FM “Omni” (circle) for a dipole. The owner (& his Sony amp, CDP & radio) lived in a flat & was limited to an aerial attached to his outside walls. To add more problems he lived in a valley that had FM reception difficulties anyway, he could get the BBC high power signals OK but the lower power local services were not really usable. He bought a new FM/DAB radio after reading all about how wonderful DAB was & hoping that would improve things ...... er no, same on FM but no DAB from the Omni (no surprise there) but something half OK using the wire supplied with the radio.

I made a temporary 1.5m dipole mounted vertically to experiment with & prove the theory. We found not only the FM improved as he was now able to receive the lower powered local stations far better, but all the DAB services came in at full signal strength on the radio set meter. We replaced the temporary rig with a Blakes half dipole mounted on a 0.5m stand off, all new coax & new wall sockets & job done.

FM Band-II 88-108MHz

Half Wave Dipole

88MHz = 1.70m

98MHz = 1.53m

108MHz = 1.39m

DAB Band-III 175-229MHz

Full Wave Dipole

175MHz = 1.71m

200MHz = 1.50m

229MHz = 1.31m  

Hi guys thanks for all the advice its really appreciate. 

Around eleven years ago I had this Omni DAB aerial fitted on my roof and to be fair it's lasted and does its job quite well on DAB but this morning I was checking the coax and some water dripped out of the end so it looks like new cable along with a new FM twig. 

As as I explained earlier I live nearer to Winter Hill than Holme Moss and will point my new aerial in that direction. In fact my local aerial contractor has said he'd come over and carry out a survey so happy day. 

I live on the end of five houses so I have a gable end. My DAB aerial is mounted on a chimney stack quite near my TV aerial (the highest) and next door's too so I'll get the contractor to remove the mast and reinstall it on the gable end of my house. By doing this the new aerial will be on its own unaffected by other aerials. My only concern is birds roosting on the new twig so a plastic owl or equivalent may be needed ����

You might find Holme Moss gives the best reception, I did even though I only live 10 miles from Winter Hill and 40 miles from Holme Moss. I discovered this with my car radio and a Roberts radio personal stereo, it’s not very scientific but it works. Make a note of the frequencies radio 2 and 3 are broadcast from both antennas, listen to frequencies on something that isn’t that efficient at dragging in a signal and you should hear the difference.

If you use a direction aerial will it pick up the local stations you listen to.

Ah, you’re a Yicker.

I live quite close to the Haydock borderlands, about a mile from the racecourse.

Practically neighbours, I'm also about a mile to a mile and a half from the racecourse too. Quite surprised you can't hear me playing Rush on occasion! 

Clearly just far enough away then....

In the summertime I have to put up with listening to past it, 80's pop bands playing at the race course, although I enjoyed the Christians last year.

Rush would definitely be a step in the right direction.