NAC- N272 & NAP250DR Speaker Choice

Posted by: Steve GTX on 23 October 2015

For those of you who have not been following my various ramblings, here's a quick overview.

 

My old kit was a Musical Fidelity A3.2 pre amp with 2 x A3.2 power amps connected to Monitor Audio GR60's. Got very disillusioned with the sound. I asked around and was pointed towards Naim and after a home demo and excellent advice from "those in the know" on this forum, I settled on a N272 and a 250DR. 

 

The improvement has been better than I could have imagined - Even with music that I know intimately, I'm hearing things that I never knew were there - You can almost hear the drummer scratching his "dangling bits" between tracks. (For a full description, read my opening comment about "Sonic Slippers") Helped by the fact that I left the system running quietly in the background whilst I was away on business last week and should now be well on the way to being run in!

 

Now then, there is every chance that (now the kids have left home), we will downsize and my GR60's will probably be too big, especially as they are rear ported and have to be placed a good distance from the wall. 

 

I know that eventually the only way to tell will be a home demo but there are so many speakers out there, I'd like to narrow down the choice - So, the criteria is not too big, not rear ported, have a natural sound and will complement my new Naim kit. 

 

Feedback, as always, gratefully received. 

 

Steve

 

 

 

Posted on: 26 October 2015 by Steve GTX
Originally Posted by MangoMonkey:
The super 20s work well with the 272/250, but are good enough that you should go for a xps-dr too.

I'll add them to the list but they look just as big!

 

Can a xps-dr really make that much of a difference?

Posted on: 26 October 2015 by MangoMonkey

I run the Kudos Super 20s with NDS/552/300. They are that good. I really haven't found any speaker I would swap these out for. Refined, and fun. I could swap in a 250DR instead of a 300, and wouldn't miss the 300 too much

 

The PMCs are very well balanced (more so than the Kudos), but ultimately boring.

 

The Super 20s also work well with the 272/250, but the source is the limiting factor. The XPS-DR should fix that up, but you should audition it to see if it's worth the spend to you.

 

Posted on: 26 October 2015 by analogmusic

Mango have you compared 250DR and 300 with your speakers?

very interesting point you mentioned above (not missing the 300 for the 250 DR)

Posted on: 26 October 2015 by MangoMonkey

Have been very busy lately, and probably won't get around to doing it anytime soon...

The Nap300 is good though - and I won't be getting the DR upgrade.

Posted on: 26 October 2015 by Rob T
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:
Originally Posted by Rob T:

Steve I spend around 18 months checking different speakers out with my SU/250 setup now XPS/272/250-DR after a lot of deliberation and a few home demo`s I settled on a pair of PMC 20-26s and I couldn't be happier, they have taken a good few month to fully open out but are stunning floorstanders and they look good too, a really good match with Naim electronics and well worth a listen.

Good luck with your search.

Like many of the suggestions here, I like the look of these and have heard some very positive reviews but I think they may be a big too big -. Off to see the my Hi-Fi dealer next week - Watch this space!

I think you will find it hard to improve on these beauties without spending a substantial amount more, they are very easy to site and work well in a wide variety of rooms so listen at your peril, if you can get a home demo/loan much the better, my dealer at Basically Sound loaned me a pair for a month so I really had time to full in love with them, they really are superb sounding speaker. Good luck with your search Steve and take you time, speakers are one of the hardiest things to buy in the Hi-Fi chain to my mind and are so subjective it`s so room/system dependent, at the end of the day only you can decide what works for you. let us know how it goes.

 

ATB Rob

Posted on: 27 October 2015 by Steve GTX

Thank you Rob T

 

I'll give them a try - bit more than I wanted to spend but it looks like I'm going be broke for years! everyone tells me that I should now invest in a power supply. Also, these are bigger than my GR60's and may have opposition from SWMBO! Time will tell.

 

Steve

Posted on: 27 October 2015 by Ryder35
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:

Thank you Rob T

 

I'll give them a try - bit more than I wanted to spend but it looks like I'm going be broke for years! everyone tells me that I should now invest in a power supply. Also, these are bigger than my GR60's and may have opposition from SWMBO! Time will tell.

 

Steve

How about Twenty .24 if you can't stretch to .26s? I have the 24 and love them. Just auditioned the 272/250 combo and it was amazing.

Posted on: 27 October 2015 by Fuzzy giant

Another vote here for wilson benesch arcs. You can get a pair relatively cheaply second hand and the sound is better than anything else I've heard at this price (to my ears). Relatively easy to drive but the more power you give them the happier they'll be. Fantastic things! 

Posted on: 27 October 2015 by IanG

+ 1 for the PMC 20.26's if you can stretch to them.

Posted on: 28 October 2015 by Pev
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:
Hi Guys (& Girls)
 
Some interesting views here but has anyone any experience of Monitor Audio GR60's compared to what is being proposed?
 
Steve
 

I have had Monitor Audio GR60s for the past 8 years and am still very happy with them. They have lived at the end of a 30ft through lounge, firing across a 3 metre lounge, and now in a low ceilinged cottage with a 5 metre square listening room. When I first got them I had a multi box Naim system and drove them with a chrome bumper 250 and then olive 135s. I then downsized to the original Uniti which did harden up a bit at very high volume. I now use a Superuniti which copes very well, so a 250 DR will be fine.

It's hard to compare them with other speakers after all this time but when I chose them also heard Spendor, Dynaudio, B&W and Naim Allaes. Basically they were much more suited to my tastes (rock/blues/african/reggae/weird stuff); also I like a speaker that can go loud and sound dynamic with powerful bass and crisp treble. The main trade off is a touch of air and transparency - I haven't heard a speaker that does it all. If I liked classical and plinky plonky jazz I may have gone for the Allaes but I don't so I didn't. As soon  as I put on some dub reggae there was no contest!

Hope this helps, they would be a bargain second hand.

Posted on: 28 October 2015 by Watson

Have you ever tried Martin Logan? For sure they need some distance from the back wall but together with 272/250 they are really great. I am using the Ethos by myself and compared to the former B&W803D it is worlds apart. Even against Sopra No. 2 it is very close to that sound.

Give it a try! 

Posted on: 28 October 2015 by karlosTT
Originally Posted by Watson:

Have you ever tried Martin Logan? For sure they need some distance from the back wall but together with 272/250 they are really great. I am using the Ethos by myself and compared to the former B&W803D it is worlds apart. Even against Sopra No. 2 it is very close to that sound.

Give it a try! 

An interesting suggestion, depending on where the OP is located.....

 

The other day I noticed the price of Electromotions on Amazon US was a most reasonable $1,000. Translating that at current FX rates and adding on 20% VAT comes to £775, whereas the UK list price from Absolute Sounds is £2,500 !  The phrase "daylight robbery" springs to mind..... :-(

Posted on: 29 October 2015 by Steve GTX
Originally Posted by Pev:
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:
Hi Guys (& Girls)
 
Some interesting views here but has anyone any experience of Monitor Audio GR60's compared to what is being proposed?
 
Steve
 

I have had Monitor Audio GR60s for the past 8 years and am still very happy with them. They have lived at the end of a 30ft through lounge, firing across a 3 metre lounge, and now in a low ceilinged cottage with a 5 metre square listening room. When I first got them I had a multi box Naim system and drove them with a chrome bumper 250 and then olive 135s. I then downsized to the original Uniti which did harden up a bit at very high volume. I now use a Superuniti which copes very well, so a 250 DR will be fine.

It's hard to compare them with other speakers after all this time but when I chose them also heard Spendor, Dynaudio, B&W and Naim Allaes. Basically they were much more suited to my tastes (rock/blues/african/reggae/weird stuff); also I like a speaker that can go loud and sound dynamic with powerful bass and crisp treble. The main trade off is a touch of air and transparency - I haven't heard a speaker that does it all. If I liked classical and plinky plonky jazz I may have gone for the Allaes but I don't so I didn't. As soon  as I put on some dub reggae there was no contest!

Hope this helps, they would be a bargain second hand.

Thank you for your feedback - this thread has been a very interesting.

 

My music taste is very eclectic. I listen to "plinky plonky jazz", classical, rock, pop, blues, reggae and a lots of piano music - Most things really but.....  not country & western!

 

I'd like floor standing speakers that are not too big, not rear ported (so they can go closer to the wall) and they must make me feel that I'm in the studio or concert hall. Not too much to ask!

 

Also want to avoid the much maligned Mullet!

 

Steve 

 

 

 

Posted on: 29 October 2015 by spurrier sucks
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:
Originally Posted by Pev:
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:
Hi Guys (& Girls)
 
Some interesting views here but has anyone any experience of Monitor Audio GR60's compared to what is being proposed?
 
Steve
 

I have had Monitor Audio GR60s for the past 8 years and am still very happy with them. They have lived at the end of a 30ft through lounge, firing across a 3 metre lounge, and now in a low ceilinged cottage with a 5 metre square listening room. When I first got them I had a multi box Naim system and drove them with a chrome bumper 250 and then olive 135s. I then downsized to the original Uniti which did harden up a bit at very high volume. I now use a Superuniti which copes very well, so a 250 DR will be fine.

It's hard to compare them with other speakers after all this time but when I chose them also heard Spendor, Dynaudio, B&W and Naim Allaes. Basically they were much more suited to my tastes (rock/blues/african/reggae/weird stuff); also I like a speaker that can go loud and sound dynamic with powerful bass and crisp treble. The main trade off is a touch of air and transparency - I haven't heard a speaker that does it all. If I liked classical and plinky plonky jazz I may have gone for the Allaes but I don't so I didn't. As soon  as I put on some dub reggae there was no contest!

Hope this helps, they would be a bargain second hand.

Thank you for your feedback - this thread has been a very interesting.

 

My music taste is very eclectic. I listen to "plinky plonky jazz", classical, rock, pop, blues, reggae and a lots of piano music - Most things really but.....  not country & western!

 

I'd like floor standing speakers that are not too big, not rear ported (so they can go closer to the wall) and they must make me feel that I'm in the studio or concert hall. Not too much to ask!

 

Also want to avoid the much maligned Mullet!

 

Steve 

 

 

 

Take a listen to Scansonic MB 1, stand mount and front ported, or MB 2.5, bottom ported. Both need to be spread apart, 9' or so, and toed in a bit to sound their best. Tough to find something in that price range to offer more than what they do. Get a slice of the Raudho sound for a fraction of the cost or go for the Raidho X1 which has the same tweeter as the top of the line D5. 

Posted on: 29 October 2015 by Steve GTX

I've had some very interesting comments regarding Speakers but what is meant by "soundstage"

Posted on: 29 October 2015 by sjbabbey

Although most modern stereo recordings are not of a live performance, recording/mixing engineers will try to recreate the semblance of a performance by the placement of the individually recorded instruments across the "soundstage" between the speakers. Usually the bass instruments will be placed towards the RH speaker ( a convention going back to the seating of the cellos/basses in the orchestra), drums towards the rear and vocals forward of the speakers.

 

The ability of the hifi equipment including the speakers to recreate this holographic sound imaging is what is referred to as soundstage.

 

 

Posted on: 29 October 2015 by Pev

 

I'd like floor standing speakers that are not too big, not rear ported (so they can go closer to the wall) and they must make me feel that I'm in the studio or concert hall.

 

Just for info - MA GR60s actually have 2 rear ports and are fairly large; but they work fine 10cm from a rear wall, especially if the supplied foam bungs are used.

 

They do, however, have the ability to make you feel you are in the studio or concert hall!

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 30 October 2015 by Steve GTX
Originally Posted by sjbabbey:

Although most modern stereo recordings are not of a live performance, recording/mixing engineers will try to recreate the semblance of a performance by the placement of the individually recorded instruments across the "soundstage" between the speakers. Usually the bass instruments will be placed towards the RH speaker ( a convention going back to the seating of the cellos/basses in the orchestra), drums towards the rear and vocals forward of the speakers.

 

The ability of the hifi equipment including the speakers to recreate this holographic sound imaging is what is referred to as soundstage.

 

 

Thanks for that, I would have thought that "soundstage" would be a very important part of speaker design - why would some say that SL2 speakers lack soundstage?

Posted on: 30 October 2015 by Steve GTX
Originally Posted by Pev:

 

I'd like floor standing speakers that are not too big, not rear ported (so they can go closer to the wall) and they must make me feel that I'm in the studio or concert hall.

 

Just for info - MA GR60s actually have 2 rear ports and are fairly large; but they work fine 10cm from a rear wall, especially if the supplied foam bungs are used.

 

They do, however, have the ability to make you feel you are in the studio or concert hall!

 

 

 

 

My GR60's have one rear port and with or without the bungs, they sound much better when placed a good distance away from the wall (in my room anyway).

 

Steve

Posted on: 30 October 2015 by dayjay

You will find that some, especially on this forum, do not value sound stage and don't consiider it to be important to the music.  Some speakers are more capable of giving a soundstage than others. Personally I consider it to be an important element and that a good system should be able to give back most of what the producer put into the recording, which includes soundstage but there are totally opposite views which is what makes this forum so interesting

Posted on: 30 October 2015 by Pev
 

My GR60's have one rear port and with or without the bungs, they sound much better when placed a good distance away from the wall (in my room anyway).

 

Steve

 I stand corrected - one port at the front and one at the rear - I run mine with the grills on so I remembered there are two but forgot one was at the front. I didn't realise you already had GR60s, I thought it was just me on this forum. Of course placement is very room dependent - best to try them with the 272/250 and of course the type of music that is most important to you. Personally there's no way I'd swap mine for Allaes for example.

As for soundstage, my GR60s were better in some rooms than others but overall compared very well to the others I heard when I was choosing speakers. I believe this aspect is very dependent on room and set up.