Is there an idiots guide to Naim power supplies?

Posted by: Steve GTX on 03 November 2015

Finally sold all my MF kit at totally loving the Naim N272 and NAP 250DR - HH, among others, rave about adding a power supply (seriously looking).

 

What is the difference between the various Naim power supplies?

 

What difference should it make and why (especially as the power amp is already DR'd)?

 

Is buying second hand unit (possibly with the DR upgrade) an viable option?

 

Then there is the mains lead at £600!

 

Steve

 

 

 

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Richard Dane

Steve, a good, albeit somewhat dated (and at times somewhat irreverent) primer in Naim's power supplies can be read on Matthew Robinson's Unofficial Naim FAQ.  It hasn't been updated since the turn of the century but it does explain quite well the basics of what power supply goes where and with which partnering kit.    However, it pre-dates power supplies such as the 555PS, XP5xs and also the DR upgrades.  Think of it as a starting point...

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Ryder35
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:

Finally sold all my MF kit at totally loving the Naim N272 and NAP 250DR - HH, among others, rave about adding a power supply (seriously looking).

 

What is the difference between the various Naim power supplies?

 

What difference should it make and why (especially as the power amp is already DR'd)?

 

Is buying second hand unit (possibly with the DR upgrade) an viable option?

 

Then there is the mains lead at £600!

 

Steve

 

 

 

 I'm no expert but am going down the same route (272/250dr on order) as far as I know the Power Supply you can get is for the 272 not the 250dr.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Frank Abela

Steve, in your case the only supplies that matter are these:

 

XP5XS

XPS

555PS

 

This is because they are the only power supplies which can be used to power your 272. These power supplies use a large transformer which can swing a lot of juice and then they provide several regulated steady power supply voltages directly to various parts of the 272's circuit. The higher up the power supply you go, the larger the transformer, the quieter the power supply noise floor, and the more accurate those voltage points on the 272's circuit become, with the consequent improvement in sonic quality.

 

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

 

 

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Ears

Steve, I think there are five possible power supplies you can use with your system, allowing for the DR and non-DR options.  If I were starting with your system, I would try to find a dealer who could demonstrate at least three of them, for example: XP5XS, XPS-DR, and second hand non-DR555PS.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by ChrisSU
Your PS options are to add either an XP5XS, an XPS or a 555PS to the 272. Naim recommend the XPS in this setup, and having listened to the 272/250DR both with and without it, I can vouch for it. The extra refinement it brings is impressive (as it should be, for the price.)
Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Ears

I have heard a 555PS / 272 / 155xs and was impressed, but would want to hear the other options before making any decision on a PS.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Naimiac
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:

 totally loving the Naim N272 and NAP 250DR

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve,

 

I would have thought that totally meant no headroom for itches or wishes...

So which one: are you totally happy or are you partially satisfied?

 

Anyway, in your case an XPS-DR would probably be the right option, if you can get over the fact that you would then have a substantial part of the 272's inner stuff unused.

 

Best

N

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by ChrisSU
Regarding 'mains leads,' I assume you're talking about the Powerline, which retails for £515. My advice is to buy one of two used ones (they often come up online for around £350) and use them for a few weeks. Then take them out and see if you miss them. If you don't think they're worth it, you should be able to sell them for approx. what you paid, so there's little to lose.
Posted on: 03 November 2015 by hungryhalibut
I use an XPS DR. The DR version is miles better than the original. The xP5xs is designed for the 5 series and I'd forget that. The 555 PS DR is really expensive. The XPS DR is the ideal partner for the 272 so is the logical one to go for, effectively balancing price and performance. An upgraded pre DR version will give the same performance improvement.

What you need to know is that you remove the mains lead from the 272 so it becomes powered entirely by the XPS. You also need to know that the improvement is massive, it's like the 272 is a new and better thing altogether. I didn't bother to demo it as I know from experience what a power supply does, but it's a lot to spend so it's probably wise to borrow one first! It's also a good idea to live with the 272 as it is for a few months first. Upgrading is entirely optional and you don't need either the XPS or Powerlines to make the 272/250DR enjoyable. It's already a great system just as it is. Do have a look at a Witch Hat Hatpin 4x though - it's a good improvement on the supplied din to xlr, and only costs £120.
Posted on: 03 November 2015 by YanC

Naim should offer 2 powers supplies: A half width, and a full width.

They should differ in price and offer the expected upgrade. They should be compatible with all Naim equipment (that can be PS upgraded) and should be able to power more than one such equipment.

 

Simple.

 

P.S. they should also be silent

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by hungryhalibut

But why should they? Do BMW only make two engines that go in all their cars?

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by YanC
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

But why should they? Do BMW only make two engines that go in all their cars?

car manufacturers standardise on a variety of parts (from door handles to steering wheels) on their cars. 

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by hungryhalibut

As do Naim. Power leads, feet and buttons. But not power supplies (for which read engines). 

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by YanC

I wouldn't consider the power supply as critical as the engine of the car. The difference between the 252 and the 202 is not down to the PS they use.

 

I suspect it is more of a business decision for Naim. The profit from the resulting customer confusion and redundancy must outweigh the headache of maintenance.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by hungryhalibut

That's just silly. 

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by feeling_zen
Offboard power supplies have been a core design philosophy since the early days for Naim starting with powering preamps from the power amp.

It doesn't just stem from isolating components from electromagnetically noisy transformers. Goes back to a deep belief that the power supply is everything. If you build something that runs on electricity, such as a hifi, interviening components like CD players, preamps, streamers, even the passive speakers at the end of the chain, merely alter the useful purpose of the current. With that in mind, the power supply is the hifi, and something like a 272 just changes the power suply's function. It is a strange way of looking at it but it goes some way to explaining why Naim are obsessive about it and why plenty of us have no problem with the fact that our power supplies cost more than the unit they are powering.
Posted on: 03 November 2015 by nigelb

No customer confusion, some Naim preamps and sources require power supplies and some don't but the latter benefit from them anyway. Separating the noisy power supply (read transformer) from the delicate electronics in a source or preamp is a well recognised way of protecting the integrity of audio signal from electrical impurities (noise). No confusion, quite simple really even for a non-electrical engineer like myself.

 

For decades the sonic benefits brought about by the judicious implementation of a suitable power supply in the audio chain has been demonstrated through dealer and home demos. If one cares to invest the effort, the benefits are evident and to suggest that all of us who have invested in power supplies are confused and have been in some way conned into bolstering Naim's profits is both ludicrous and insulting.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by MangoMonkey
For the 272, you should really only consider the xps-dr.
Xps since its at the right level for the 272.
DR - since all the new gear is voiced with that in mind.
Posted on: 03 November 2015 by YanC

Apologies, if people have taken insult from my comments on Power Supplies (and for derailing the thread somewhat). 

I totally get the benefits of the separate Power Supply design as a means of upgrading your kit. No confusion there.

 

I just don't get why a Supercap can't power a 202 and a DAC at the same time (for example). To me it sounds like a business decision and not a design one.

Also suggesting  that one Power Supply is a better match for a given pre-amp than another one, is (to me) at least nerdy, and it will inevitably make you feel that there will always be another PS that does a better job than the one you have (unless you try them all that is).

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by joerand
Originally Posted by YanC:

I just don't get why a Supercap can't power a 202 and a DAC at the same time (for example).

Simple. Because it was not designed to do so and a dual connection would be an overload.

 

If you could successfully power two components on a SC you'd have heard or read about it somewhere.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by karlosTT
Originally Posted by nigelb:

No customer confusion, some Naim preamps and sources require power supplies and some don't but the latter benefit from them anyway. Separating the noisy power supply (read transformer) from the delicate electronics in a source or preamp is a well recognised way of protecting the integrity of audio signal from electrical impurities (noise). No confusion, quite simple really even for a non-electrical engineer like myself.

 

For decades the sonic benefits brought about by the judicious implementation of a suitable power supply in the audio chain has been demonstrated through dealer and home demos. If one cares to invest the effort, the benefits are evident and to suggest that all of us who have invested in power supplies are confused and have been in some way conned into bolstering Naim's profits is both ludicrous and insulting.

Perhaps a degree of confusion may justifiably arise in situations where the PSU provides partial rather than complete power supply for the component in question.

 

For example adding a HiCap to a SN2.  The SN2 retains the use of its internal PS/transformer for the power amp section,  so its other circuits are not "protected" from any noise which that may generate ?

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by feeling_zen
Originally Posted by joerand:
Originally Posted by YanC:

I just don't get why a Supercap can't power a 202 and a DAC at the same time (for example).

Simple. Because it was not designed to do so and a dual connection would be an overload.

 

If you could successfully power two components on a SC you'd have heard or read about it somewhere.

Not just unstable loads but earthing. With a Naim source, the signal ground is expected at the source end. If a SC could power a CDX2 and a 282 (for example - nonsense of course because they have different numbers of regulated outputs at different voltages) you'd have an earth loop. The 282 would be grounded via the SC and the signal would be grounded via the CDX which would also terminate with the SC.

 

Incidentally, it is possible to power multiple units from a SC with the right cable (plenty of people have tried to power a SL and a 252 at the same time) but because of the earthing and load issue, it is not supported at all by Naim.


This is why they only allow dual component powering with the Flatcap.  

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by feeling_zen
Originally Posted by YanC:

 

Also suggesting  that one Power Supply is a better match for a given pre-amp than another one, is (to me) at least nerdy, and it will inevitably make you feel that there will always be another PS that does a better job than the one you have (unless you try them all that is).

Well, yes I agree with that. An NDX can be powered by 3 different PS and they are all equally 100% compatible and supported. Saying the XPSdr is the natural partner is true from a price point and range perspective but, as with anything, the better the PS the better it performs. I guess it is a matter of judgement of which PS is low enough down the range where you feel the cost performance of the unit it is powering is not favourable and which PS is high enough in the range where the unit cannot fully benefit from the PS.

 

Those discussions have gone on forever on this forum with no agreement. Case in point, all the threads that mention adding a SC to a 282. Plenty of disagreement there.

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by hilz
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

But why should they? Do BMW only make two engines that go in all their cars?

Actually BMW do not make as many engine variants as you may think , 

obviously Petrol and Diesel. Then mostly the variation is in the number of cylinders

aside from that the only main difference in done by different tuning

to provide alternative power output,

the engine blocks are standard throughout their range.

 

hilz

Posted on: 03 November 2015 by Steve GTX
Originally Posted by Naimiac:
Originally Posted by Steve GTX:

 totally loving the Naim N272 and NAP 250DR

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve,

 

I would have thought that totally meant no headroom for itches or wishes...

So which one: are you totally happy or are you partially satisfied?

 

Anyway, in your case an XPS-DR would probably be the right option, if you can get over the fact that you would then have a substantial part of the 272's inner stuff unused.

 

Best

N

 

Good point Naimiac

 

Well here's the rub - I'm on a journey and like any trip, it depends on where you start and where you are going. 

 

I started off by being very dissapointed with my old kit and initially thought that I'd have a demo at home of the N272 and when connected to my old Musical Fidelity power amps the improvement was huge but then someone offered to buy all of my old HiFi, so I had a blank canvas.

 

After talking to my Naim (and very good) dealer, taking advice from this forum and a long home demo, I decided on the 250DR power amp. 

 

So, when I say "totally satisfied", I mean that I've had a great trip and travelled a very long way........ but not nessasarily got to my destination - Perhaps the question should be, where is my destination?

 

Steve