LP12 sound quality

 The mastering of the recording makes a very big difference. Two CDs of the same recording may sound quite different, depending on the EQ/compression moves used. There are some recordings  where the CD master is exactly the same as the LP master. Ones that come to mind are the Analogue Productions Blue Note series (45rpm/hybrid SACD). These should be tough to tell apart (vinyl/digital).

Yeah I agree with the Rooster.  My Xerxes has been on the top shelf of my Quadraspire ever since it arrived.  No problem.  I understand a wall shelf will make a greater difference if it's not a solid floor.

It's a bit difficult to comment on this except in general terms. I agree with recent posters that it is very unlikely that the position of the LP12 is causing the problems that you have unless the rack is seriously compromised in some way, for example in being unstable. Placing the LP12 on a wall shelf might improve the SQ but your problem seems much more than a matter of optimising.

The other issue is that it can be difficult to compare different media because it is virtually impossible to establish what original sources and production chains are being used. However, from the Hoffman forums, it does look as if the recent Rush reissues are using the same sources for the different formats and are reasonably well regarded.

All that being the case, I think you are quite correct in thinking that the LP12 is under-performing for some reason. I have my LP12 on Hutter (with glass and balls) with preamp and Radikal power supply underneath. On the other Hutter rack I have a CDS3 on top with glass and balls, with power supplies and amp underneath. This is quite a different set-up from what you are comparing, but I think my listening experience is relevant and comparable with others who have commented. Generally in comparisons I find the LP version is superior and certainly not lacking in the way you describe. For example, I have the recent Dylan release - The Cutting Edge and yesterday I compared just one track from the LP with the CD. These have obviously used the same source and been worked on by the same engineers for simultaneous release. The two media sounded very close to me in terms of hifi criteria - e.g. detail, bass, sound stage. I thought that with the vinyl Dylan's voice was a little more natural and expressive, but I'm not sure that I could confirm that in some sort of blind test. 

So I agree that there is a problem with the vinyl reproduction and you do need to think of that problem in terms of the whole chain - deck, cartridge, connection leads, etc. I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this, but light bass on vinyl can often result from the cartridge playing weight being too light. Is it possible this has got disturbed at some point? Worth a check if you haven't done that.

Clive

Then i suggest you put the turntable on its own rack on the floor and be amazed at the performance uplift. An LP12 on a pile of gear will never perform to its best. A wall shelf in general will be better, but depends on the wall, and the shelf.

Hi Clive

thank you for the reply. I plan to try and weight adjustment, since I saw today that someone on the LP12 forum had the same issue with the Majik (no bass or depth to the music) and it seemed to fix. I think he moved it from 1.75 to 2.00.

Will give it a try tonight.

Simon

Hi Gary...I don't have solid walls. It is a new house and the walls aren't fantastic. The floor has a solid oak floor glued to concrete, so there isn't a lot of move on the floor. I am walk past the stand and there is no movement....Simon

Hi Simon,

I think its worthwile to check the weight, as suggested by Clive. It worked for Tweed here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...04#49718397663774104

Simon

It might be best - rather than simply upping the weight - to start again from scratch ie. balance the arm with tracking and bias settings at zero and then dial in your cartridge's recommended tracking weight.

Clive

As other people have suggested, I think it’s not set up correctly, I had a similar problem with my Manticore mantra. As the platter and chassis weren’t level, I decided to alter the set it up, making sure everything was level. Result, no bass, guitars and keyboards no longer sounded like they’re worth £1000’s more like £30.00. Returning it to it’s unlevelled state brought back the magic.

Why not take it back to your dealer and compare it to his demo model. I wouldn’t go messing with the set-up, not if it’s under guarantee.  

Also, have you checked the cartridge is wired correctly.

This thread is really making me lean towards the relatively set and forget RP8/10 vs LP12 :0

Sounds like a wall shelf might not work so well, unless you can give the stud wall some substantial reinforcement. I've been happy with my LP12 on top of a 3 shelf Isoblue rack. Hopefully your dealer will able to pinpoint the problem(s) so that you don't have to listen to yet more speculation from us lot! Good luck.

Simon,

When are the guys from Loud & Clear visiting, if they haven't already? It really isn't supposed to be this hard to enjoy records.

Chris

Not ALWAYS set and forget. I could not get my P9 to perform well due to isolation problems. Tried all sorts of supports ( Fraim, wall shelf, sandbox, rubber balls,etc ) to no avail. The problem is airborne vibration and the position of my racks - a non-negotiable location unfortunately. The suspended design of the LP12 solved this problem. So the Regas are not a plonk and play deck by any means. Just something to think about ... As always, try before you buy if possible.

ATB,

Mark

Hi

I am still trying to find a slot in the day to call them. Will try tomorrow. OK, so I adjusted the weight and didn't make too much difference and then I reset the arm from scratch and still not too much difference.  I will wait and see what they say to me when I phone.

Amazed you've gone on a forum but not actually contacted the retailer from whom you bought the new record player at top dollar. Different strokes, I guess. Please phone them asap.

C.

Ignore the wall shelf advocates. This is waaay more fundamental and the root cause of your problem lies elsewhere.

Is a wall-shelf better? Yes, but it's not the solution to your problem.

Levelling your turntable and then re-balancing your tone arm and dialling in the right downforce is where I'd start. Your LP12 should sound beautiful and the bass should be much better than digital. I really hope you sort this as the outlay for a Majik is substantial. I hope you get it sorted asap.

I took the time to re-read the thread entirely.

The simplest explanation is that the OP simply prefers the sound of digital files over that of analog recordings. That's his right and I suspect there's nothing wrong with his LP12. 

Claude

...an unsatisfactory conclusion Claude given the LP12 is the most expensive piece of kit on his rack.

I'd be pointing the finger at the Stageline rather than the LP12. The Stageline, nice though it is, even powered by a Flatcap X or whatever as I have done in the past, is no match for most good £600+ phono stages now available. I wouldn't swap my Rega Aria for a Stageline powered by anything. As a design it's also getting on a bit. You have to accept that playing vinyl records is fantastically rewarding but demands a fair investment in the first place - whereas, if you wish to make that invidious comparison - good digital can now be had relatively cheaply. My laptop to Rega DAC-R setup (one option) is probably on a par with a £1500 t/t plus cartridge plus phono stage scenario. I bet I could get the basic Linn sounding better than some digital, though. In fact, I've had the Linn Basik......etc

Can't say I agree Dave's point about the Stageline powered from my 282..  I had a Stageline S when I first had the Xerxes with an Ortofon Cadenza Red and later the Dyn XX and it sounded great and performance wise was way ahead of my  CDX2/XPS2.

Sorry that you have had no success so far. I think you do now have to get someone with expertise to investigate on the spot - remote diagnosis can do no more!

Clive

Hi

LP 12 is going into Loud and clear on Saturday so that Johnnie (of Audio Origami) who I believe is an LP12 expert in set up, to check there isn't something fundamentally wrong with the turntable and or set up. They want to check this 1st before moving further down the sound chain.

I will also take my phono stage and isupply too, so we can set up a similar system.

will keep you posted.

Hope you get to the bottom of this, on Saturday. Make sure you listen to 'exactly' the original set up you heard - and compare that to yours. Remember you are not comparing Apples with Apples here - you have listed that the cart and the Stageline  power supply are different, to what you heard originally. You must try to resolve those differences. Try your deck with a better power supply for your Stageline, for instance. Say a FlatCap - or HiCap.

Believe your ears. It may take a while.