NDX/555PS/Hugo vs Linn Klimax DS/1

Hi Simon HK,

I can't give you a definitive answer, but I do use both a Linn Klimax Renew DS on my main system and a Chord Hugo (with ND5 XS) on a second system.

If money is a concern, then I would suggest that adding a Hugo to your NDX would be the 'no brainer' option, and would hopefully get you most of what you hope to achieve.

Alternatively, you could purchase a Klimax Renew DS/1 pretty cheaply on the used market(very much cheaper than the original aluminium cased Klimax), and apparently a fairly significant advance on my DS/0. If this is the case then it will be very good indeed (and possibly/probably better than the NDX/Hugo).

If money is no object, then by al means investigate the Klimax DS/2 or NDS, but these options will be (much) more expensive. I can't comment on their comparative merits as I haven't heard either.

By the way, the Hugo cannot be used with the Linn Streamers - they have no digital output for an external DAC.   

Of course, there are other alternative reasonably priced options, such as the Auralic Aries/Vega for example.

Most Naimees (ironically) are advocates of the Chord Hugo.  You may like to also consider the Chord 2Qute as an alternative.

Following many one-week periods of swapping back and forth a Chord 2Qute and a previously installed Naim DAC, the former is now permanently in place and the Naim DAC removed.  With the Chord 2Qute in place it provides a depth, clarity and natural and full-bodied sound (less digital) that Naim DAC doesn't deliver.  With the Naim DAC there is a sensation of more full-on firepower in the rhythmic drive, however it may be an engineered artefact as part of the 'Naim sound'.  Chord 2Qute is still quick, very musical and more true to the recording, it was always a relief when it was re-installed.  The other advantage is the 75Ohm type of BNC coaxial input (needed for a CD player).

There is a Naim DAC firmware update coming but to do with DSD 64 and DSD 128 and some performance improvements.  If the performance improvements are quite substantial, then the Naim DAC may well be back in the game and take its revenge on all of the Chord DACs.

There have been very few replies about the Linn streamers. I have to say they have left me underwhelmed and bemused, lacking in every aspect from coherence and timing to timbre.

To be precise: this is only correct regarding the Klimax streamers. The current Akurate, Majik and Sneaky streamers do have digital outputs (spdif and usually toslink too).

Can't go wrong with NDS or a KDS. If it were me I would go for NDS.

the NDS has the advantage of being able to use Naim DIN interconnects.

Wow, thanks guys for all the so many replies and views You gave!

I think I'll be more inclined to choose between KDS/1 (or 2) and NDS.  The obvious advantage of Linn is that it's a one box solution whereas NDS is 2, if not 3.  Price and shelf space wise the Linn has upper hand, plus, the research I've done so far suggests that, sonically, even in an all Naim system, the Linn one is definitely no slouch, if not being a better one, than NDS/555PSx2. I'll go for a listen to the Linn DS/1 (and/or 2) by the end of this month. Cheers mates!

Make sure you also hear the nds/555dr to compare. A guy I know lived with the linn klimax for over a year and felt while very good it lacked something, something that had been there even with his old ndx. He decided to try the nds and quickly realised that the music once again excited him, which it hadnt done nearly as much with the klimax. He now has the nds and has never looked back.

If I were in your shoes then I would definatley audition both to avoid a potentially very costly mistake!

I switched from Naim front-end to Linn KDS a long time ago. Don't regret it at all. As always let your ears decide not opinions in forums.

The Space Optimisation technology in the KDS is worth experimenting with too. It takes time to tweak the default settings but can definitely tidy up the bottom-end and mids by compensating for room nodes.

Easy to switch between on and off to hear the difference.

Simon HK originally posted:

"I think I'll be more inclined to choose between KDS/1 (or 2) and NDS"

Simon,

If you are going to be focussed on the NDS or Linn Klimax DS/1 or 2, then one other factor to bear in mind is the controlling app - the Naim app (IOS or Android) for the NDS or Linn Kazoo (or Kinsky) for the DS1 or DS2 (available for IOS, Android or Windows).

I use both, and you may be pleased to know that they are fairly evenly matched. Both integrate with Spotify and Tidal very well, and Linn also gives the option of Qobuz (which may or may not be relevant over the next few months).

Personally, my favourite application is the Windows Desktop version of Kazoo, but that's simply because of the large screen size of my PC & laptop. In summary though, both Naim & Linn apps are pretty good and shouldn't have much of an influence on your ultimate choice.

Good luck.

Also 3rd party controller apps like ChorusDS (ios) and BubbleDSNext (Android) are good alternatives to the vendor supplied ones for tablets and phones.

Like Graham, I use a KDS (in a 552/300 system) and chose it in preference to an NDS at the time.  The NDS was (and is) great and if there was no such thing as a KDS I'd be using one now but I found the the KDS did things that I simply didn't get from it or other digital sources.  The fact that it's a single box solution is a bonus and now that Linn have introduced Space Optimisation, it really warrants an audition.

I have heard the Hugo on the end of an HDX in a 552/500 system and it was superb, at least on a par with the 555 that was also in use but the combination was not a KDS beater.

In reality, at this level you're bound to have a preference either way but don't let anyone suggest that an NDS has a synergy that is lacking in the Linn player. Anyway, have a listen, see what you think and let us know the outcome.

Cheers

Dave

KDS (renew) for me too.  I went from NDX + Naim DAC/555 to NDS.  The KDS does as much as I want from a single box.  Internet radio on the Naim is better but not something that influenced  me enough.  I have tried the NDS into a Hugo and whilst it is good, the KDS is nearest in sound to my LP12 of all digital sources that I have tried.  I should add that all this is room dependant and I may prefer something else in a different room. 

I have heard KDS/1 many times, and as good as it is, I would take an NDS over that easily

I totally agree. When I first heard a KDS (it was the original version) I thought it sounded more analogue and extracted more detail than the CD555 with dual PS which I had at the time.

Years ago, I had a KDS and later on a NDS. Now, I'm in with a much more flexible frontend (Auralic, Aurender, Mac) and a DAC with volume control (Yes, I skipped the preamp:-))

You can't go wrong with NDS or KDS- it depends on your taste and your wallet :-) but if 

you consider DSD than NDS is your streamer!

One thing I really loved about the NDS was the frontpanel! Iknow some say a streamer should be controlled via ipad etc. but as soon as the ipad is in your kids hand you'll love knobs on the frontpanel as well...

ralf

That I agree with.  I miss the front panel of the NDS or NDX.  My kitchen Uniti is linked to a NAS on a Netgear switch. No internet required.

I also like the idea of the flexibility of a dac as a separate component.  Just haven't found a combination that worked for me but it's probably out there somewhere.

I just now heard what the new 250 DR is capable of.

I am speechless as to how good it is, the DR and 009 transistors make a huge difference to engagement musicality, resolution, PRAT, foot tapping, really everything takes a leap forward.

Naim really have made huge progress.

I would upgrade the NAP 500 to DR before making any further investments in source.

Run or fly to your nearest dealer and listen to a DR amp first.... It is that really good !

Damn.....this is so intoxicating from point of view of Nap250.2 owner ! My few months old Nap250.2 is already sounding great, how far can this little DR take?

as someone posted, I find this to be absolutely spot on of the new DR amps 

"Gives the music real drive - drums are smacked instead of thudding."

I listen to lots of rock music and the difference this makes cannot be underestimated in terms of engagement and enjoyment.

So rather than source first, I think that upgrading to a DR power amp will get much more of your existing source. with the much lower noise floor, one has to hear for themselves to understand it.

I have (and prefer!) a KDS1 over both a NDX and HDX into a Hugo. To my mind, without Space set up, the KDS is still better, although well into the realm of diminishing returns. 

With Space turned on, the KDS1 was unarguably better.

This was in a very "difficult" room, which may be significant.

SQ opinions are subjective ..........

I have heard KDS a number of times on a buddy's nearly all Linn system & he has heard my NDX & another friends NDS also a number of times - none of which are Hugo'd

We all agree the KDS in comparison is relaxed & polite & the Naims are more immediate & attention grabbing, NDX more so than NDS.   Each could easily live with the others system(s) 

None of the others are "hifi" enthusiasts, just music enthusiasts 

Mike-B originally posted:

"We all agree the KDS in comparison is relaxed & polite & the Naims are more immediate & attention grabbing"

Mike,

I would be pretty confident that the attributes you describe are more to do with the Linn amplification and speakers, as opposed to the KDS itself.

I have heard the KDS (KDS/0 and KDS/1) in both Linn and other systems including my own. I can see why you would describe the KDS in a wholly Linn system as "relaxed" and "polite" (although I would describe the sound more as "refined" and "non-fatiguing"). However, it sounds quite different in my own system. I certainly feel that it doesn't lack anything in respect of dynamism. I am talking specifically about the KDS models which include the DR upgrade. This specifically excludes the original aluminium cased KDS/0, but does include the Renew models from KDS/0 onwards (which gained the DR upgrade) and the full KDS/1 & KDS/2 versions. 

To the OP, if you intend to pursue both the NDS and KDS/1 or KDS/2 options, then the only answer is an extended demo of the 2 streamers. Ideally this would be at home, but definitely using a Naim based system of a similar standard to your own.      

I heard a DS/0 a couple of years ago in a non-Linn/Naim system and, like some of you said above, I didn't find it lacking in any aspect.  That same dealer didn't carry any Naim stuff at all so comparison with NDS was not possible.  I'll have a listen to NDS and DS/2 and decide, and may post my findings here in due course.

Hi Hmack, might well be so except I did say "nearly all Linn system" - the nearly bit is Kudos Super 20 speakers.  I am not that familiar with Linn to know whats going on with his streamer re. DR or KDS/0/1 etc.  

One of these days we might get around to trying one of the Naims on the Linn system (or visa versa) but not sure what that will prove as none of us intend to change anything.  I am tempted to blag a demo on his Kudos S20's on my system if/when I next change speakers.