How to know when a NAS drive or Ethernet switch is dying

Posted by: Foot tapper on 16 November 2015

A plea for help to those who understand such devices, from a lapsed mechanical engineer who definitely doesn't.

BACKGROUND

3 years ago, I thought it time to dip a toe in the water of this new fangled music streaming lark.

So I designed and built a beginner's home network to connect existing Apple computers, HP printers etc. together and to run the Naim DAC-V1, NAP140 and a pair of PMC DB1i speakers off a 2012 Mac mini.

Internet comes into the house courtesy of Virgin Media at a measured 120MB/s on a fibre cable, through a Virgin Superhub set to modem mode then into an apple time capsule (wifi router + 3TB backup hard drive all in a white box).

Joining the whole lot together is a Netgear GS108T managed 8 way gigabit switch and lots of 100% CAT6 or CAT6a professionally installed cables.

All media is stored on a Synology DS212+ NAS drive, which runs periodic backups to a second Synology DS212 NAS drive, which is also on the home network, though in a different part of the house for security reasons.

So far, so good. It all seems to work and to be totally reliable. Until the last few weeks...

FAILURE SYMPTOMS

The main NAS drive just drops off the network for no apparent reason. After a short pause of a few seconds, it can be re-discovered. However, by then either the music has stopped streaming or the backup routine has been interrupted, so I have to reset and start again.

The second NAS drive meanwhile continues to be utterly reliable, though it has had a much easier life and works far less. Internet access on all devices continues uninterrupted throughout.

I have even replaced the Ethernet patch lead from the NAS drive to the switch, to no avail. Most recently, I have plugged the NAS into a different socket in the switch, again to no avail. I have even pulled out the 2 hard drives, blown them clean and reinserted them in the NAS to make sure that the contacts are okay.

So, everything that I can think to do says that the main NAS drive just can't be bothered to stay on line all the time. Yet strangely, all its lights stay on, as though all is well.

I'm baffled now and would welcome informed advice.

My somewhat primitive root cause analysis points towards a fault in the NAS drive itself.

I'm at the point of buying a new NAS drive and even a better Ethernet switch (which one?) though it might not solve the problem.

Any wise counsel from those who understand such matters would be genuinely appreciated.

best regards from a vinyl playing, CD spinning Luddite.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Foot tapper

Thanks Folks

I've been off-line since last night, mainly because we have just re-floored the living room and study today.

For obvious reasons, this leaves little time for fixing NAS drives.

In the meantime, everything is already backed up on to the other NAS, so not to worry there.

Oh, and I've ordered a replacement Synology DS716+ with a pair of Western Digital Red Pro drives in it.

This should result in a bit of an upgrade...

This evening, I will start to work through a number of your recommendations, for which thank you all!

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by andarkian

Originally Posted by Graham Clarke:

Originally Posted by andarkian:

Just a salutary note. I am using an iPad something or other I bought a few years ago to write this reply. I also have an extender to my Sky router. Every single day this iPad drops out of wifi (sometimes still linked to the extender), and the Sky router disappears.

How do you fix it? Well, reboot the iPad and hey presto internet connection is back. No other device, Apple or otherwise has this 'feature'. It wasn't always like this and it may be an Apple software update issue, but I can guess what may happen next. If the iPad dies I am 'okay' in that there is nothing mission critical resident on this machine, but a temperamental NAS is a bit scary.

Rather than rebooting the iPad, try going into Settings then Wi-Fi. Disable it and then re-enable. May be quicker than a reboot.

I waited until the next time it disconnected, although I was pretty sure I'd tried that in the past, and am afraid it did not work. Reboot or nothing. As I said, it is not mission critical so I can live with it for now.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Foot tapper

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Just looked at that switch spec... Please check IGMP snooping is DISABLED.

Hi Simon

Okay, now I have been able to check.

IGMP snooping is and has been always disabled.

I guess that eliminates one more potential root cause.

Also, every port on the switch is assigned a static IP address, with DHCP switched off by the switch software. Presumably this eliminates any concerns about DHCP ranges? I'm not sure that I fully understand what this is.

Now looking into switch logs and status of the drives inside the NAS.

Best regards, FT

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

OK - so snooping shouldn't be an issue. You might be confused with DHCP - there is only one DHCP setting for the single loop back address of the switch - its not linked to any switch port. You might be looking at the layer 2 addresses or mac addresses for each port.. this is not really important for us here - and has nothing to do with IP addresses or DHCP.

The stats on the network monitor on the switch will show the likelihood of data integrity issues....

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Foot tapper

Hi Simon

Ah, I suspect that unplugging everything to lay the new carpet may have wiped the logs in the switch...

However, than NAS is now delivering data transfer speeds of errr 50MB/s as I back up data from it on to the mac. That's as fast as I can recall it ever managing! This is via the network, not a direct USB cable.

Running a quick SMART test on the disc drives, using the NAS drive's utility software returns their condition as normal. They are running at a temperature of 33C, which is also well within limits.

So I think that the discs are fine.

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

you have fixed it

if transferring that amount of data, and there is something amiss on the network- you should see error counters rising - if staying at 0 then it would appear ok

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Foot tapper

Error count is zero...

Perhaps this NAS just likes working in high cross winds. They are supposed to be about 50mph (80kph) here at the moment!

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

yes somewhat gusty here too - apparently just under 60mph and there have been some massive gusts - even the cat has decided to abandon his nightly tour and has decided to join me listening to Bob Dylan and log burner ticking away..... but since they have redone the overhead power wires in my village there have been no flickers, loss of power, brown-outs or earth trips - quite impressive - in days gone by with a night like tonight we would be on candles and UPS.

I think you have cleared the issue - perhaps a poor network connection somewhere? Anyway if it happens again - get a new carpet

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by Foot tapper

Thank you Simon for all your considerable help.

I'll invite you round to thank you in person, once the main system is installed, up & running.

Best regards, FT

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by ChrisSU

Originally Posted by Foot tapper:

Hi Simon

Ah, I suspect that unplugging everything to lay the new carpet may have wiped the logs in the switch...

Running a quick SMART test on the disc drives, using the NAS drive's utility software returns their condition as normal. They are running at a temperature of 33C, which is also well within limits.

So I think that the discs are fine.

Your carpet fitter should get a job in tech support, he has successfully encouraged you to turn everything off, then turn it on again!

Posted on: 17 November 2015 by trickydickie

How does the new carpet sound?

Posted on: 18 November 2015 by Foot tapper

The new carpet sounds clean, very clean. Quite spongy too, almost as though the new underlay is absorbing all the vibration from the speakers. That's new underlay for you.

Fortunately, the gripper rods are exerting a strong (err) grip over the bass, as well as the edges of the carpet.

Yours mildly amused, FT

Posted on: 18 November 2015 by Solid Air

Carpet is under-estimated as a hi-fi component. Black carpet sounds the best, followed by other dark colours such as blue or mauve. Never white, it sounds ghastly and really shows the dirt. Patterns and swirls can cause dissonance and confusion in the sound waves, especially with floorstanding speakers, which are more sensitive to palette. Also, if the nap flows in the speaker-facing direction it sounds more fluid and open, whereas if it's perpendicular it's more rich with a lower noise floor. I believe Audioquest are now selling hi fi carpeting ('AQ Yosemite Deep Pile') for a £2000 per square metre, which is a bargain for me.

Posted on: 01 December 2015 by Foot tapper

Post script.

First a heart felt thanks to those of you who offered so much help so quickly.

This is truly a great forum, with a number of members who give so freely, swiftly and generously of their considerable expertise.

Second, having disconnected all the network cables to enable re-flooring & repainting of the downstairs rooms, followed by subsequent re-connection, the NAS drive seemed to have a good run for a few days, though various anomalies in its performance were still evident, such as its refusal to go into sleep mode when it was not required. We have eliminated patch cables and the switch as potential root causes too, as I have a bunch of spare Cat6a patch cables and can change the switch ports, none of which made any difference.

So it pretty much had to be the NAS drive (not the discs inside it)

So the Synology DS212+ was replaced with a Synology DS716+, together with a pair of WD Red Pro disc drives. The new NAS does everything that the last one did, but twice as fast (if you believe the specs). The WD Red Pro discs are supposed to be very fast, very durable and very good. They are specified as being ideal with the DS716+.

So what's different?

First, the new NAS is obviously faster than the old one. Twice the RAM, twice the processor etc. etc..

Second, these WD drives are noisy, aren't they. Much louder than the Seagate Barracuda drives in the old NAS.

Third, the new NAS goes to sleep when not being called on by other devices on the network, which is as it should be. This also allows the mac mini to stay asleep when I want it to. All good.

Fourth and a bit of a surprise. Music sounds more, well, musical, lifelike & dynamic when replayed through the mac mini & the Naim DAC-V1. It's got more punch, drive, get up & go, and I wasn't complaining beforehand. Why this should be, I do not know and certainly don't understand. But there you go. Wonderful.

So, in summary, all is more than well again.

And thank god I backed up the old NAS drive to a second one on an automatic, scheduled basis. No data was lost and the disc drives inside the old NAS are still perfectly fine, but even so...

Best regards, FT

Posted on: 01 December 2015 by Solid Air

The disks can be noisy. One oft overlooked way to mitigate that is to place the NAS on something to suppress the resonance - an old mouse mat is ideal. It's amazing how much quieter it becomes.

Posted on: 06 December 2015 by Huge

Just an update from me, I was having intermittent problems where my ND5 would see the UPnP server OK, but the Naim app would loose it frequently. Well, I took Simon's advice and disabled IGMP snooping in my router.

Result: The whole system is now almost as reliable as clockwork.

Thanks Simon, and ever your knowledge is both amazing and indispensable!

Posted on: 06 December 2015 by Mike-B

Huge posted:
Just an update from me, I was having intermittent problems where my ND5 would see the UPnP server OK, but the Naim app would loose it frequently. Well, I took Simon's advice and disabled IGMP snooping in my router.
Result: The whole system is now almost as reliable as clockwork.
Thanks Simon, and ever your knowledge is both amazing and indispensable!

I need to "bone up" on this stuff - not that I need to, just interested.

However my question is are we sure about this, my BT HH-4 has IGMP permanently enabled & no option to enable/disable it as its needed for the BT TV service, but I have never experienced the discovery drop-out symptoms other than an occasional few seconds slow wakeup & the spinning wheel.

Posted on: 06 December 2015 by Huge

Mike-B posted:
Huge posted:
Just an update from me, I was having intermittent problems where my ND5 would see the UPnP server OK, but the Naim app would loose it frequently. Well, I took Simon's advice and disabled IGMP snooping in my router.
Result: The whole system is now almost as reliable as clockwork.
Thanks Simon, and ever your knowledge is both amazing and indispensable!
I need to "bone up" on this stuff - not that I need to, just interested.
However my question is are we sure about this, my BT HH-4 has IGMP permanently enabled & no option to enable/disable it as its needed for the BT TV service, but I have never experienced the discovery drop-out symptoms other than an occasional few seconds slow wakeup & the spinning wheel.

Hi Mike, my setup is:

IGMP : Enabled
IGMP snooping : Disabled

Posted on: 06 December 2015 by Mike-B

Huge posted:
Hi Mike, my setup is:
IGMP : Enabled
IGMP snooping : Disabled

.................. BT are simple souls, seems they prefer to make their hubs tinker proof, maybe not a bad plan; whatever I don't have a problem so I guess it don't need go fixin'

Posted on: 06 December 2015 by Huge

Mike-B posted:
.................. BT are simple souls, seems they prefer to make their hubs tinker proof, maybe not a bad plan; whatever I don't have a problem so I guess it don't need go fixin'

In the immortal words of Yoda...

"If broke it isn't, then fix it you should not! Hmm"

Posted on: 07 December 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi Huge, glad it worked for you.. At some point in the future you might need IGMP snooping to stop saturating your network.. But until then you have a working solution... And hopefully by the time you are using high bandwidth multicast using IGMP (such as IPTV) your then router will have a better implementation of IGMP protocols, perhaps like Mike's BT HH router...BT use IGMP for the online BT TV services.

Simon

Posted on: 07 December 2015 by Mike-B

Re ......... multicast using IGMP (IPTV)

As a coincidence I have been helping a friend install 4k streaming AV/TV today ..................

So far its all worked OK, but he tells me more & better is to come, oh err !!!

I was surprised to hear he was planning Cat-8 Ethernets for the next stage, even more surprised as they had RJ/E45 plugs. Whatever this standard (I read) is going thru the approval ringer & will support the proposed 40GBASE-T standard with a bandwidth of 2000MHz.

8 Cat's !!! oh err Might be an opportunity for the cable pedlars to sell some more rarefied snake oil, filtered thru pelts of 8 Gobi three toed CAT's. Be afraid, Cat-6 is just so-o unworthy low fi. Do I see today's fav-raves of Tuned Aray's & AQ Diamonds as mere dust & bones in the desert of rejection?

Posted on: 07 December 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Mike indeed snake oil for the home network using even top quality consumer network equipment. It appears to the laymen they seem to think a higher number means better . Cat 5e is all we really need for gigabit Ethernet. In fact I would focus on aggregated 5e connections on the uplink connections between switches / switch router rather than a single CatX connection..