Ovators S400 on Home Demo

I look forward to hearing more about how these work out. What sort of room do you have and how are  are positioning them?

Clive 

Hi Clive,

My room is 7.3m by 3.3m and the speakers fire across the room, not ideal but it is what is needed. So far I have I have tried them where the 683's where, which was 3m apart, 15cm from the wall and toe'd in. I found this really worked for them. It did not work for the Ovators, so for now they are 2.8m apart, 28cm from the wall and straight. I find this much better.

2 things that really standout for me are that the Ovators sound more natural, but seem to have less bass. The 683's to me seem to move more air and go lower. I say seem, as this may be due to me having to up the volume a little for the same sound level and that the 683's are front ported.

As it stands now, I like them. They are very different to the 683's, however I will say it shows to me just how good the 683's are for the money. I could now happily plug them back in.

Tomorrow, I will play around with their position and see what happens.

In truth the Ovators have a job to do over this weekend. I will be digging out plenty of CD's to give them a shot, and if at the end I feel they are worth it they will stay.

ATB,

Simon. 

Simon,

my living room is similarly sized to yours, plus I have another 3.5 x 3.5 space protruding from one of the long sides, as dining room. I too tried the Ovator S-400s on the short wall, firing across the long one, and I, too, didn't find it was ideal.

I found the general voice, then, a little too 'full' for my taste and habits, although their merits over the Sats were obvious and dramatic. In the end, I gave up but have always regretted not having tried more hard.

I find the S-400s beautiful and a very elegant, non invasive piece of furniture; what's more, my usual dealer has bought a new pair after the original ones, sold, and I have a feeling that these latest have, out of the box, a different voicing, perhaps more luminous, more lucid than the first releases; I don't know, perhaps it's just an impression but I remember very well how disappointing and slightly chesty the S-400s sound when brand new, and these were rather enjoyable immediately.

So, I think that they deserve care and patience. They're definitely worth trying to make them the heart of the home's reproduction system.

Best

M

Room interaction and the whole port/sealed box issue is really complex. The diminutive PMC Twenty.23 go lower and subjectively feel like they are 'shifting more air' than the S600 I battled with for a year or so (252/300 CDS3/555 at that time).

Good luck and I hope the S400 work for you as I like their design and almost willed them (the 600) to perform better in retrospect.

G

Indeed, room interaction (plus personal taste) is a central issue.

BTW - a few days ago I was at my dealer's, talking with his home theatre guy in the small HT room, and after some time I realised that we were listening to some small, black piano lacquered, unassuming towers that, to my ears, sounded slightly lean, petulant and not especially attractive; it was only after a close look that I noticed they were the PMC Twenty 23...

Perhaps the amp, perhaps the room, whatever; but I can't imagine substituting these for the S-400s..

Personal opinion.

I am posting here an interview of Franco Serblin, might be interesting. Just google franco serblin minima stereophile

Franco explained Sonus Faber's design philosophy. "We like your [American] point of view, for, after all, you started 'hi-fi'." But he suggested that Americans prefer large loudspeakers with high sound levels. He wanted to convey "the difference between European and American style." In Europe, the most important thing is the music; less important than owning a big amplifier or loudspeaker is having "a small corner [in which] to listen to the music you like." After all, "Here [pointing to his body] is the body, which is very big, and here [pointing to his head] is the spirit, which is very small but very important. The Minima is like the spirit." 

The Minima's success in Europe over the eight years of its product life has convinced Franco that he should continue with his "less is more" design direction. Unlike manufacturers who modify their products yearly, Franco finds that it "is very important for us to have a product that has no change in the future." Therefore, despite reviews, the Minima will remain the same. I asked him if he might violate this principle by fixing the Minima's bass leanness. "No," he said, even though he began his career by designing a satellite/subwoofer system called The Snail (see Vol.11 No.3, p.34). He now designs small speakers only; in Italy, "there is no culture for subwoofers." He found the search for perfect bass futile. "When you want more bass, you miss it; when you have it, it disturbs you." The Extrema is the culmination of Franco Serblin's ideas, for it is the "extreme representation of the very pure 6dB" design. 

In his best Zen style, Franco ended the interview by reminding me, "Nothing sounds better than things that aren't."

Thanks, Simon. I am expecting to move house soon and I think that my Harbeth 30.1s may not be feasible as they need space around them. So I may have to change and wondering about Naim offerings, including the Ovator 400 and even the SBL which can go up against the wall.  I will therefore be interested to hear more of your experience, although your room is larger than what I would have. I will have to start with a dealer visit anyhow.

Clive

Clive,

     Have you considered the ATC range. They are a sealed box design. The Naim speakers are predominantly sealed boxes so a possible alternative.

Owned S400s for a couple years. Now trying out Focal for a different system build.

Honest speakers and very truthful mind and if thats what you are looking for they won't disappoint.

Simon

I've got 683S2s hooked up an SU, I recently upgraded from a Unitilite +  684S2s. Due to room layout (7m x 6m & sofas in unavoidably awkward positions) I have them 4m apart, 20 cm from the wall &  toe'd in.   I think they are hard to beat for the price (got mine ex-demo).  My dealer reckoned I would need to look at £3k plus speakers (new) to significantly improve sound - so ex demo Ovators would probably be an option. I'll be v interested to hear your conclusions.

So far today I have put on Seal, Ray LaMontagne and Mark Ford.

These Ovators have an amazing grip on this type of music, Honest and Truthful, yes, I'd agree with that Dan43.

Time to up the ante. Metallica and Leftfield. Ovators you can sing, but can you rock?

Thanks, Graham - I have seen much praise for ATCs here so I should consider them. I'm very much at the speculative stage though as the house move is currently proving a bit of a roller coaster...

Clive

They rock pretty well, nice defined and well driven bass, and they go loud too.

I have a large rock/metal hi-res collection and wanted a bit more bass and bottom end response hence the Focal switch.

For me Ovators performed brilliantly on high end and more subtle/musical material (such as Carmen Gomes, Cassandra Wilson, some Jazz and some film scores I like) joining the mid/highs beautifully, and when adding more kit to the build they take it on, but I eventually felt the need for more bass and bottom end and found Focal fits my taste and requirements.

In hindsight I think I may have found them a little too truthful & honest and at this stage of my listening cycle want to experience more mid/bottom end response to that mostly rock music library I have. Entirely my choice and not a slight on Ovators which I did really enjoy, just want to try something with a different sound signature/flavour. Perhaps I felt the Ovators handled bass by handling it well at loud volumes rather than taking it by the neck and driving it along for the better. Maybe.....

Yes, they can Rock.

I have played around with their position and find that @2.8m apart, 13cm from the wall and toed in only very slightly the whole presentation is stunning.

In this room they sound clear, natural and very musical. Bass is now a bit more forward, it seems to start and stop so quickly and there is no woolliness!

I have a couple more days to make my mind up, but right now, the cost to change looks tempting (once the 683s are sold)

Now what to put on next??

10,000 Maniacs 'unplugged' really did for the S600 which dismantled the music and not in a good way...strange.

G

Hi Slim68.

Not sure how much relevance this will be, but I did have the B&W 683's albeit the S1's. I switched to PMC 23's looking for a bit more resolution and expecting to take a hit in the bass department; I couldn't be more wrong. The PMC's bass has more slam, it's more articulate, detailed and is really able to get down surprisingly deep. In addition to better bass I find them far superior in all departments. I haven't heard the new 683's however for comparison.

I was running a Nait XS/Flatcap XS with the 683's. When I switched speakers I felt that this amplification struggled to really grip the PMC's so I switched to a SN2 which is able to drive them really well in my opinion, as I'm sure other's will attest on here. The superiority of the PMC's was still clear when using the Nait XS/Flatcap XS however for me. 

It's good that they work in your room Simon. Assuming the rest of the system stays the same for a given audition, this is all that matters when it comes to speakers. The S400 would not work  in my listening room no matter what I or the dealer did to tune and position them. The same pair worked beautifully (magically even) in the dealer's main demo room, They either will or they won't. And if they do, then great.

Slim68, since i have a setup quite similar to yours (if you plan getting the S400), i can tell you that the S400 really sound quite flat in certain situations (like they did in my home on the longer wall firing the short one) and quite wonderful lively and textured (like they do on the shorter wall by the window, firing the longer wall).

and YES, they can rock, and then some! but i do consider the NAP200 as the minimum decent amp to drive them as they deserve... the 200DR, at least really starts to open them up, in a big way!

in fact, the 200DR does such a gret job with them, that i haven't been tempted by an upgrade to the more fabled (already) 250DR. while better, the jump in SQ was not justifiable by the cost, getting too little for quite a lot of money. i think 172/200DR/S400 as a good starting point into Naim's serious business philosophy!

i like the ovators for their rather very natural way of presenting voices and acoustic intruments, pianos, sax, guitars and such, and, most of all, the speed and attack they deliver. the percussion is second to none on those speakers! i haven't found other speaker so far to deliver percussion in such a great and lively manner (i haven't heard yet the bigger brothers S600 or S800, but i expect they actually are even better)

my opinion is that compared to B&W, they are like from another galaxy! no offence!

catalinmetal posted:

Slim68, since i have a setup quite similar to yours (if you plan getting the S400), i can tell you that the S400 really sound quite flat in certain situations (like they did in my home on the longer wall firing the short one) and quite wonderful lively and textured (like they do on the shorter wall by the window, firing the longer wall).

 

and YES, they can rock, and then some! but i do consider the NAP200 as the minimum decent amp to drive them as they deserve... the 200DR, at least really starts to open them up, in a big way!

in fact, the 200DR does such a gret job with them, that i haven't been tempted by an upgrade to the more fabled (already) 250DR. while better, the jump in SQ was not justifiable by the cost, getting too little for quite a lot of money. i think 172/200DR/S400 as a good starting point into Naim's serious business philosophy!

 

i like the ovators for their rather very natural way of presenting voices and acoustic intruments, pianos, sax, guitars and such, and, most of all, the speed and attack they deliver. the percussion is second to none on those speakers! i haven't found other speaker so far to deliver percussion in such a great and lively manner (i haven't heard yet the bigger brothers S600 or S800, but i expect they actually are even better)

 

my opinion is that compared to B&W, they are like from another galaxy! no offence!

Catalinmetal,

I do agree that that with with acoustic music, guitars etc these speakers are wonderful.

The bit I am missing is some bass for my preferred prog rock. I have a few more days to make up my mind, we'll see!!

Positioning is critical with some of the Ovator range. The S600 are very fussy and I think the S400 a lot less so - but they do like a very firm floor under and tweak the level to suit taste. if they lean-back a mm or so you get a lot more bass, but you can go too far - try ajusting the spikes.

Toe-in makes more difference with the BMR driver than with many other speakers, so try flat-on forward, then very small toe-in an listen - there should be a spot where they snap into focus and give what you want.

DB.

My sweet spot for the S400 is actually toed in completely to my listening position. That said, the sound is not completely derailed if other listeners (or youself) is sitting outside the usual position. I did not like the non-toed in positions.

Cheers...

Interesting comments on toe-in, and I suspect results are room dependent.

The 400s project a very wide soundstage. In my small, but heavily treated listening room, even when they are firing straight ahead, I get a perfectly focused center image. As I toe them in, the treble becomes more emphasized, but never gets really hot.  After going back and forth many times over the last four years, I've settled on just a few degrees of toe-in.

ATB.

Hook

Hook posted:

Interesting comments on toe-in, and I suspect results are room dependent.

The 400s project a very wide soundstage. In my small, but heavily treated listening room, even when they are firing straight ahead, I get a perfectly focused center image. As I toe them in, the treble becomes more emphasized, but never gets really hot.  After going back and forth many times over the last four years, I've settled on just a few degrees of toe-in.

ATB.

Hook

My understanding is that the optimal amount of toe-in depends, among others, on the distance from the side walls and on their treatement. If the speakers are positioned too near to the side walls and these are not treated, a larger amount of toe-in might help reducing reflection. I can well imagine that, under ideal conditions and reasonable listening distance, no or little toe-in is actually needed. In general terms, I do not have the impression that the S-400 are particularly fussy or that they require an ideal listening position. But my experience with speakers is very limited, I have a bad hearing and I might be missing something.

Quick update, It would seem these speakers have not had much use, as over the last few days they have opened up and are now giving a lot more bass. I have not really had enough time with them due to circumstances at home. Will try and give a better description ASAP.