Ovators S400 on Home Demo

I think I found the S400s just too honest. Eventually wanted more bass. Now have Aria 926s. Different, but for me good different. Bass is a little too full but is calming down but found high frequency response nearly Ovator like. But the bass has verve and punch for me I did't quite find with S400. Never tried S600/S800 unfortunately.

Also found positioning key with my S400, room was fine, but a delicate toe in was key also, for my ears.

Dan43 posted:

I have a large rock/metal hi-res collection and wanted a bit more bass and bottom end response hence the Focal switch. 

Really looking forward to hearing how you get on with the 926's on the end of the 272 and 250DR, as this is a potential future upgrade route for me...

The Focals are brilliant and they love TQ Black too.  Couldn't be happier with mine

On first playback over the weekend was pleased the room didn't cause any issues. Once settled in a little found the high frequency response very good, but the bass like a full bodied red wine (Chilean Rioja), strong but surprising pleasant.

Speakers are new and not run in so expecting the bass to just decanter a little more, rounding out the flavour I enjoy, and then I will find my own personal sweet spot.

TQ black thanks. Should try these, bit of a SL fan mind on previous demo.

Dan43 posted:

On first playback over the weekend was pleased the room didn't cause any issues. Once settled in a little found the high frequency response very good, but the bass like a full bodied red wine (Chilean Rioja), strong but surprising pleasant.

Speakers are new and not run in so expecting the bass to just decanter a little more, rounding out the flavour I enjoy, and then I will find my own personal sweet spot.

I think if the room is working OK with them at this stage then it should all be good... I found they work really nicely at lower volumes but then really know how to boogie when you want to change the mood, some of the 'drive' is startling - and this with a Uniti2. I'd expect them to be able to play along even more beautifully with a pre-amp/amp setup with more resolution.

Enjoy your new system and keep us informed as to the good and the (hopefully non-existent) bad!

PS - sorry to have hijacked the original thread. I'll start a new one if I have any more observations or questions...

Thats what I am aiming for is drive and verve, really want to demo the SL or TQ cables to pick everything up and push it through somewhat.

Loved the 926s in the demo room, just waiting for that driven but balanced presentation (and sparkle) to arrive in my own room, which at this stage doesn't appear to be the room, thankfully. Plus the electronics need to settle and run in somewhat too.

One thing I did find is that the Focals handled volume very well. Might sound trite but the R500s just went louder, like party speakers, but the Focals went along with the ride a lot better, picked up the volume, grabbed it and presented it.

Dan43 posted:

Thats what I am aiming for is drive and verve, really want to demo the SL or TQ cables to pick everything up and push it through somewhat.

Loved the 926s in the demo room, just waiting for that driven but balanced presentation (and sparkle) to arrive in my own room, which at this stage doesn't appear to be the room, thankfully. Plus the electronics need to settle and run in somewhat too.

One thing I did find is that the Focals handled volume very well. Might sound trite but the R500s just went louder, like party speakers, but the Focals went along with the ride a lot better, picked up the volume, grabbed it and presented it.

The volume handling is what really made me sit up and take notice. I'd had the R700's on demo for 2 weeks trying to like them but they were just harsh at even moderate volumes whereas the 926's 'wake up' at loud volumes, still sounding 'clean' but now pushing the air around (and the floor!)

The physical involvement brings a smile to your face - but you do need to get the positioning correct otherwise you get the 'bloated' rather than detailed bass. The speakers do come with detailed instructions on how to position them but I found these only got me part way there. You'll find the best position as you play but my advice is to note carefully where you like the sound as I did have one really great position for a good, clean, solid bass but moved them while tweaking and I've still got to get around to putting it back properly...

+1 on positioning, took me a good while to get the balance right but well worth it.  They also respond differently to differently speaker cables - I found I was struggling to get the bass I wanted with Chord Rumour 2 but with the TQ the balance is excellent.  Surprising how much scale they have and, as you say, when you turn the volume up they just produce more volume and quality

Thanks great feedback, will let you know how they come on song once run in and positioned correctly. Already thinking Sopra No1 & No2, which I heard at a dealer demo and were tremendous. Always looking for more.....

Dan43 posted:

I think I found the S400s just too honest. Eventually wanted more bass. Now have Aria 926s. Different, but for me good different. Bass is a little too full but is calming down but found high frequency response nearly Ovator like. But the bass has verve and punch for me I did't quite find with S400. Never tried S600/S800 unfortunately.

Also found positioning key with my S400, room was fine, but a delicate toe in was key also, for my ears.

sorry Dan, no offence intended, but no matter how you put it, 926 is not in the same league as the S400! to me, it seemes you made a serious downgrade!

as for rock/metal, very, very few speakers beat the ovators, IMHO.

the aria series is more suited for soft vocal music, being rather bloated, with slow and rather overemphasised bass... i would not recommend them for rock and metal. you need really fast speakers for this tipe of music, like Martin Logan, Piega, Ovators, ProAc (on valve amps) ...

yes, s400 require attention when integrating in the room, i concurr to this, but the reward is far more substantial than in the Aria series case, which is rather an entry-level series.

i think that S400 has the Electra series in Focal range as the same level of SQ.

just my 2 cents...

catalinmetal posted:

Dan43 posted:

I think I found the S400s just too honest. Eventually wanted more bass. Now have Aria 926s. Different, but for me good different. Bass is a little too full but is calming down but found high frequency response nearly Ovator like. But the bass has verve and punch for me I did't quite find with S400. Never tried S600/S800 unfortunately.

Also found positioning key with my S400, room was fine, but a delicate toe in was key also, for my ears.

sorry Dan, no offence intended, but no matter how you put it, 926 is not in the same league as the S400! to me, it seemes you made a serious downgrade!

as for rock/metal, very, very few speakers beat the ovators, IMHO.

the aria series is more suited for soft vocal music, being rather bloated, with slow and rather overemphasised bass... i would not recommend them for rock and metal. you need really fast speakers for this tipe of music, like Martin Logan, Piega, Ovators, ProAc (on valve amps) ...

yes, s400 require attention when integrating in the room, i concurr to this, but the reward is far more substantial than in the Aria series case, which is rather an entry-level series.

i think that S400 has the Electra series in Focal range as the same level of SQ.

just my 2 cents...

Interesting post Catalinmetal. I didn't realise you'd heard the 926's - what kit did you listen to them on the end of?

i heard 926 in many setups... with Arcam, Naim, Simaudio, Symphonic Line, VTL... (from what i recall quickly). they seem to favour Naim, but most certainly they are not in the league of Ovator s400, that's no doubt! and they are not as fast as the Ovators, not as neutral, and not as refined. they have a mild colouration on mids that sweetens falsely the voices, also have a midbass bump that many like, to make the speaker sound heavier that it really is. also, integration of drivers is not as good as the s400 is...

the bigger brothers, 948, are a bit more neutral, but compared to Ovators still far behind... not as stilish, not visually and not sonically, i, for once, feel that this is an entry level speaker which tries to pass as a higher end sibling, but still no Electra however.

as i said before, Focal starts serious business with Electra range... the entry level series, 700/800/900, are just that, no offence! but Electra and Utopia are fussy to get right with the rest of the setup...

No offence taken! Most of us only get to hear a few speakers in our own homes and a few more at the dealers - so I'm always interested in the viewpoints of people who've heard the speakers I have and can compare them against others they've heard.

I have heard the Ovators (too sterile) along with Spendors (too slow) and other speakers that were far more expensive than the 926's, and they really didn't give me what I wanted from the systems I was listening too. I also don't recognise your description of the 926's as slow - they seem anything but in my system, but accept that we all hear things differently/what we want to hear.

Logically speakers should become 'better' as they become more expensive, especially within the same manufacturers stable, so I don't doubt your views are probably objectively correct. For my HiFi ambitions my 926's sound perfectly fine to me, and I think I'd struggle aesthetically and otherwise to put anything larger in the home I occupy.

At some stage Naim will bring out a DSP and I will definitely try this out of curiosity as something that should optimise the speaker:room interaction. However this is likely to be my only change unless I win the lottery, and even then I'm not convinced I'll change much - the Uniti2 plus 926's have so many virtues for me that I'm struggling to see how larger speakers or numbers of boxes would win me much more of what I actually want from my system.

Thank you for taking the effort to reply - much appreciated!

Update time. For the last few days the S400 have mainly been used as front speakers for the TV to give them as much use as possible. Tonight I have played London Garmmers If you wait, Art of noise, Riptide, Bjork, Bjorn Riis and Roger Waters. Some tracks off each that I know and love.

The 683 S2's do have the edge in the outright Bass department, it just comes at you more for any given volume. But you know it is coming from the ports at the front of the speaker, this is no bad thing, just what they do. I can honestly say that the 683s are Great Speakers on the end of my system and in my room, the S400's do not make them sound "broken". Here is the thing, Bass from the S400 is part of the whole sound, part of the sound stage and feels tighter, not straight at you.

Where the S400's really appeal to me, is in the way that in my modest system they just deliver the music in a way that just seems so natural and emotionally involving. I now find it is the music, not the system I listen to. what CD is going on next is a question I am constantly asking myself.

I know that there are plenty of different speakers I could try, the Focal comments above are very interesting to me, Plenty of others have also been suggested, I am sure with good merit. As I am typing this, Perfect sense part 2 (Amused to Death) has just finished, and I guess it does. I can pack them up and take them back tomorrow, I just do not want to.

It's always a good sign when you don't want to take them back, that's how I ended up with my Focals.  By the sound of it they could be keepers for you, enjoy

Penarth Blues posted:

the Uniti2 plus 926's have so many virtues for me that I'm struggling to see how larger speakers or numbers of boxes would win me much more of what I actually want from my system.

Thank you for taking the effort to reply - much appreciated!

not accidentally, uniti2 with 926 really sounds very good, indeed! as does the new 700 series, even for a lower price tag, albeit with less refinement... and S400's deserve above uniti2 to sound as they should... while i see that 926 is not in the league of S400, i cannot help in seeing that on some electronics, including uniti or SU, they really sound very good for the money and indeed, the slight lack of punch is corrected by Naim rather beautifully!

the most important thing is that everyone to enjoy his/hers hard earned gear!

PS: there is no effort for me to speak or write about the things i like, but a pleasure, and privilege! i'm actually accused by my friends of talking/writing too much! one of my best friends is the Romanian Naim and Focal importer, and as you can imagine, a lot (if not exactly all of it) of he brigs (many other brands as well) has passed by my ears or into my home... indeed a privilege, which i am enjoying a lot! this didn't saved me for doing my own mistakes along the way, but i thing that, in a way, the journey is more important than the destination...

Profile has now been updated as the S400's have stayed.

It has been an interesting journey in that as Ex Demo's I thought they may have had plenty of use. This would appear not to be the case. I have been through the highs and lows of running Naim equipment in and am really surprised by the ride!

There were times when I though these need to go! and others when I just had to keep finding the next CD.

Due to a death in the family I just could not sit and listen for a few days, but did use them for the TV/radio just to put as many hours into them as possible. I am really glad I did, as they have taken on a sound that makes me wonder how they could sell if you have only heard them fresh out of the box, I would not have bought them!! I feel very lucky I had the time I did to make up my mind.

Proves beyond all doubt to me that a home demo is needed.

The final position for them is 2.4m apart, 25cm from the wall and toed in slightly. I have tried switching from NAC A5 and Tellurium Q speaker cable and have settled on the TQ as electric Guitars just sound better with them, the NAC A5 seemed to give them an edge to the sound that annoyed me.

Ok, what to put on next??

Sounds like a good choice. I found the S400s took a while to break in but once there were excellent.

Now trying Aria 926 (just arrived with them in their boxes today) and wanted that extra bass delivery for my mostly rock/metal collection.

Enjoy the S400s, they are very honest and when hooked up correctly sound delightful.

All speakers take a while to break-in and the Ovators have their teething problems for a while. When I had the S600 I found that they sounded great straight away, but were over-sensitive to set-up - with time and run-in that did seem to improve and after about 6-9 months the bass performance opened-out and became far better.

When I eventually upgraded to S800 I found them a lot easier to position in the room, even though they are huge compared to the S600 which looked like toys in comparison. Possibly the bass response being lower had less interaction with a room node and gave me more freedom to position. Again, after 6-9 months the bass completely transformed and became very solid and able to create the shapes of low frequency notes in a way I have not heard done by any speaker before - the DBL came close, but the S800 is far better at it.
A home demo is critical, as I hear also some other makes can sound unhappy in some rooms which is not obvious at all before trial.

Ovators have a seamless presentation I love and are especially good, for me, on female vocals, as they have no crossover transition in the vocal range. It can sound a bit strange at first when you hear them compared to traditional speakers, as you mentally search for the crossover effect to 'grab' onto and it isn't there - so it sounds wrong at first. Once you get used to the presentation then it is very hard to go back to traditional speakers - you get used to what people that prefer flat panel speakers love in the graceful presentation of easy to access spatial information and the gentle rendering of voice - but with decent bass.

Enjoy!

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

...Ovators have a seamless presentation I love and are especially good, for me, on female vocals, as they have no crossover transition in the vocal range. It can sound a bit strange at first when you hear them compared to traditional speakers, as you mentally search for the crossover effect to 'grab' onto and it isn't there - so it sounds wrong at first. Once you get used to the presentation then it is very hard to go back to traditional speakers - you get used to what people that prefer flat panel speakers love in the graceful presentation of easy to access spatial information and the gentle rendering of voice - but with decent bass.

Enjoy!

DB.

Agreed, and well said DB!  My rebuilt ESL 57's share several of my Ovator 400s strengths, but trail significantly in bass reproduction, size of sweet spot, and in soundstage width. 

ATB.

Hook

Darke Bear posted:

Once you get used to the presentation then it is very hard to go back to traditional speakers - you get used to what people that prefer flat panel speakers love in the graceful presentation of easy to access spatial information and the gentle rendering of voice - but with decent bass.

Enjoy!

DB.

True dat DB,

This was one of the reasons I was quite happy to move on from my Maggie's and rejoin the box speaker world again. 

The bass on your S800's will be a bit more 'decent' than on my 600's however... 

Cheers

Ricky.

Slim68 posted:

 

The 683 S2's do have the edge in the outright Bass department, it just comes at you more for any given volume. But you know it is coming from the ports at the front of the speaker, this is no bad thing, just what they do. I can honestly say that the 683s are Great Speakers on the end of my system and in my room, the S400's do not make them sound "broken". Here is the thing, Bass from the S400 is part of the whole sound, part of the sound stage and feels tighter, not straight at you.

Where the S400's really appeal to me, is in the way that in my modest system they just deliver the music in a way that just seems so natural and emotionally involving. I now find it is the music, not the system I listen to. what CD is going on next is a question I am constantly asking myself.

 

as i said before, there is a way better driver integration on the Ovators... of course the B&W will have quantitatively more bass. B&W is rather a lifestyle company if you ask me, and not hi-end. they want to trick the customer with just more, and not better, as Naim does!

sorry to say this, if you still have doubts in choosing the ovators, either there is something wrong with their integration to your home environment, or you just like colored and compressed sound. or both!

you seem to notice the natural flow of the Ovators, so there is not evidence of something really terrible with the way they integrate in your home... all i can say is that after many friends of mine got rid of the B&W sound, after a while they could not really imagine how they actually listened so much on such bad designed speakers... sorry, no personal thing intended, but i just happen to have a very bad perception from SQ point of view over the things that get out of B&W factory...they managed to make it in the design field (let's face it, their models do look in a very very nice and refined way), but it seems that there is the only thing that they need or aim... sorry... except for the Nautilus model, i have listened to the whole range at different points in time, 300/600/CM/700/800 and at the beginning of my audiophile life i have owned 2 pairs of B&W speakers... luckily, i got rid of their sound very fast... if i would have the money to spare, i would buy a pair just for the way they look, though...

that's quite a strong review of B&W speakers 

But in the end I sold my 805 S too... see I don't always disagree with you Catalinmetal 

Hi Catlinmetel, I am not going to slate the B&W's as once the Naim equipment had settled in I enjoyed them. However the S400's have found a new home and the B&W's are going on a well know E-auction site in the not to distant future.

The S400's do seem to be getting better the more I use them and if like DB says they can take a few months, I am looking forward to how they may develop, as right now I love them!

ATB

Simon