Is NAIM gone mad? Or the value of sticking what we have...

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Naim new ownership are another reason for price hikes

Investors have three main agenda's, buttomline, buttomline & buttomline and I'm sure priceadjust is one way to serve

I don't think these higher euro zone the prices are doing good for anybody's Naim business. It doesn't matter if it is mainly due to the strong pound: As prices rise out of reach, people must look at other alternatives for spending their hard earned euro. Seems to be having an effect here in my locale: Two Naim retailers have announced they are dropping the brand entirely.

All things considered, I think that Naim's loyalty to their customers is admirable.

Me too

M

I mentioned it on Page 1. VAG are the new owners.

I, too, like to pay as little as possible, but I fail to see how others paying more is a source of pleasure, rather it is just a source of pleasure to get best value.

Meanwhile I assume Naimac's tongue is firmly in cheek (pleasure if other people can't afford to buy?) best pleasure is everyone having as good quality music listening.

 5 years ago the pound was weaker against Euro (~20%)

10 years ago it was slightly stronger 

So if comparing with 5 years ago the exchange rate is a significant factor, but not if comparing with 10 years ago.

Yup. That, and a tentative Randy Newman-y attitude..

N

+1 to opening statement.  However I think the need for bass traps is to do more with room resonances than speaker design, and I'm far from sure that finding the right speaker is easy - nor in my experience are they cheap, and - some will see this as heretical - if I was buying a system new I would expect to spend more - far more -  on the speakers tham the source to achieve the reaslism of sound that I find satisfying.

Within a same brand dearer should always be better. If it isn't then we should be questioning everything else about that brand.

Since we cannot try out every single component on the market at home there will always be a lingering doubt that we could have found better/cheaper elsewhere.

When I bought my first Oppo BluRay player/streamer I had no doubts that I had made the right choice. Objectively nothing could touch it at the price.

For me two channel audio is more subjective and harder to nail.

Dear Innocent Bystander,

I do realise that some rooms are nigh unsuitable for replay. Most bathrooms for example, but most living rooms are between fair enough and very good. Any space can be excited into resonances with too much excitement of the sound waves..

One thing I cannot quite understand is why the Royal Albert Hall is considered suitable as a concert venue! This must be the largest bathroom acoustic in Britain if not the World! As the sound builds, more and more of the detail is lost in the resonance that accumulates! A capacity of about six thousand, and such a contrast to the four thousand capacity Royal Festival Hall, where the resonances are, if anything, somewhat short! 

I cannot really agree that good speakers are necessarily expensive though. Rega make some very nice speakers for quite relatively small money for example, and if you consider second hand then some exceptional speakers can be had for very little money, for example the various Royd models.

The great thing about Royd and Rega speakers is that they are at the undemanding end of power demands, so even a quite small amplifier can be used.

At the extreme end of low power demand speakers is the ESL [57 version], which is happy with less than twenty Watts. As a mono person I am using one, and am going to get a 12 Watt amp for it! 

I do not expect either really loud volume, nor being embarrassed by insufficient!

One thing is for sure, and that is that inefficient speakers [low sensitivity and low impedance/high current consumption] will cost the owner a great deal of money to buy strong enough high quality amplification.

ATB from George

4000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire - now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.  Written at the time the RAH was being refurbished, with those inverted mushrooms hanging from the ceiling to tame the acoustics.

as for efficient speakers, the other day I say on a well known auction website a pair of (copy) Tannoy Westminsters, made to proper plans. I was sorely tempted to go and listen those being a design I've always admired - and 99dB/W would allow use of a less power-hungry room heater to drive them. However, a quick reminder to myself of the dimensions and common sense prevailed...

But the best sound I have EVER heard from a HiFi system was one occasion when I played my system in the garden (my 50th birthday party - and all the neighbours came so no nuisance to worry about).

Speakers on front edge of patio at end of garden, raised a bit above the lawned area and flowerbeds/veg patch that filled the space from there to the patio at the back of the house that they faced about 30m away. Thick hedges behind the patio and on the two sides of the garden, with about 8m between the hedges. Before the party started, I just sat for a while in the middle of the garden and enjoyed the exquisite sound as my speakers really sang In those surroundings. Smooth and sweet across the full range, the extra little bit of power to drive them in such an open space, combined with the lack of resonances and reflections allowed them to behave in the way they were designed. If if I had a room with acoustics like that I'd never even be interested in listening to any other HiFi components, as, quite simply, I don't think the sound could be bettered, or at least, any fine nuances wouldnt make a jot of difference to my enjoyment.

same here in germany: 5% each year was ok, but this year it was about 30%! my dealer told me that it is nearly impossible to sell naim products and reduces his stock dramatically, also another dealer nearby. maybe in future this can be a big problem for naim, i thought germany was (is?) a big market for them. christoph

I dont think its worth the money if you are buying new today. Its a relatively old product now, DR supply notwithstanding, and would greatly benefit from Statement updates -- volume control, switching etc. Maybe this is something Naim will surprise us with at CES? I will be there just in case anyway...

(Please note - that is not a nudge nudge wink wink hint. I know absolutely nothing of what Naim will show at CES)

I was only talking about the claim of significant and unwarranted price *increases* since launch, which I think is not true.

Probably why I said "And you get a powerline cable which retails for £515, and back then you didnt."

Apologies. Oversight on my part.

As indicated before, the exchange rate sometimes works in favour of those overseas, and sometimes the reverse - if marketing started 10 years ago, by 5 years ago relatively speaking Euro prices would have dropped by 20% 5 years ago to now increased by 20%. 10 years ago to now unchanged. It works the other way of course for those in UK buying anything from Euro zone. Dollar fairly similar (and back when Naim started there were about 2.5 $ to the £ so today relative to then 40% cheaper).

However, if as it sounds these price increases are much higher than explained by exchange rates and inflation (and bearing in mind that the exchange rates and inflation rates of other currencies may be involved with component parts), perhaps Naim has changed marketing strategy, to sell less but at higher profit margin. It works for some things if the balance is right, the manufacturer not not concerned that it prices their products out of reach for more people, while on the positive side it avoids a need for mass production that could compromise quality if prices were low enough to require/enable the masses to purchase. Actually I think Naim has always been in that marketing place, but perhaps this is just a readjustment to ensure future viability of the company in today's economic times.

not a problem :-)

Of course it is annoying in this respect to live outside UK and see these massive  prices, but the pound just goes up and up, so it is expected.

Naim is luxury and the  secondhand value is good. Of course not on sreamers anbd servers, but that can hardly be a surprise for anyone.

I wonder if this guy Hugo and his funny named friends ever will make it to Denmark. With all the hipe I should try to get a listen for myself sometimes.

Claus

Arguably the pound isn't going up and up, but back where it was (and should be) 

it it could be worth people overseas checking uk prices to see if difference is purely the exchange rate, as in theory it should be. (Too many things in the UK imported from US cost same in £ as $ in USA, so we suffer on those. A cost of importing?

historically in UK we've been fleeced with cost of LPs and then CDs compared to in US,  and nothing to do with importation, or so media have led us to believe...

We pay the same in ££ for petrol as Canadians do in $$ for petrol. That is UK fuel tax-driven

Things like Krell and Wilson seem to cost in the UK about the same in ££ as they do in the US for $$

Manufacturers, importers, distributors, import tax, UK VAT, Canadian Provincial tax and GST, etc etc etc  all conspire to wring as much out of us, as often as possible, to maximise their gain across the population they serve bleed.

Take a deep breath and smile, it a'int gona change !

A lot of interesting aspects to this story...

I guess that certain price thresholds put people off the game -- and others on, as some pointed at here in this discussion.

In my case at this price level I would not even consider going in the direction of Superuniti & Ovators (as I am fortunate to have aquired right in time). It is too much of an outlet considering my situation with a young family. I would have been forced to think smaller, like Unitilite and some small and nice Kudos, or else.That might change if I move in the direction of retirement, kids out of the house etc.

I would also agree with some of you that Naim has constantly improved the functionality of the devices, especially with software upgrades. Also, I would state that the costumer service has been excellent to me.

If the Ovators 400 have been sold to cheap, and the price hike was necessary for Naim, than I consider myself lucky with the timely purchase...

Wow, and all along I kept saying to myself ''it's all about the music''

Arguably the pound isn't going up and up, but back where it was (and should be)

Actually it's the euro going down, not sterling going up (mostly). A CDX2 is roughly 7,000€, and £5,000 in Britain. It seems about fair, as the exchange rate today is 1.42 €/£.

The point, I think, is that 4,500€ for a Supernait 2 is a lot of money in Europe. There are a lot of good amplifiers in that price range, so perhaps Naim are overpricing themselves out of the market.

I talked to my  Danish dealer a few days ago, and asked if he had a 250 Dr in the shop. His answer was no we do not stock the whole Naim range, it is too expensive, from time to time we will take in the higher priced gear. So no way to here the difference between old 250 and new before deciding if I want to dr my 2 250s for  my active system.

Claus