DAC-V1 after firmware update, what is happening?

I also installed the new 1.16 update last weekend. For me a definite improvement to the sound. As previously stated by other forum members, I am also hearing a deeper bass and an improved midrange. There also seems to be a little more detail too, with slightly better instrument separation. I'm currently running DAC-V1 NAP200 and the sound is absolutely stunning. Thank you Naim .

Ian.

Ancient Mariner posted:

I also installed the new 1.16 update last weekend. For me a definite improvement to the sound. As previously stated by other forum members, I am also hearing a deeper bass and an improved midrange. There also seems to be a little more detail too, with slightly better instrument separation. I'm currently running DAC-V1 NAP200 and the sound is absolutely stunning. Thank you Naim .

Ian.

Ian

Spot on.

Dave

Hi everyone! Is it possible to reload the old firmware? think lost some timing...

BobbyBlitz posted:

Hi everyone! Is it possible to reload the old firmware? think lost some timing...

+ Bearing in mind your comments on the other firmware thread....Comments some have made, mainly referring to 'airy', remind me of my feelings when I first bought the V1 and ran it into a Cyrus 8vs.  Yes, it instantly impressed revealing more of everything, and it was musical, but in that system it just had no wallop, too tip-toe-like, and regardless of volume.  My Cyrus CD8x could not match the detail, separation and all that, but it delivered music like a complete animal, which suited the lean nature of the matching amp, though it was a cloudy view of things compared to the V1. 

Perhaps there is a similar situation here, if the NAP100 for example is a lean-ish sound, the removal of bass bloat and general smoothing effect the firmware has brought could make some music sound less exciting?  Just a thought.  Anyway, at least you have option for put it back to how it was, and could always update it again whenever the need may arise. 

Hello Songstream, I think your tought is right, same as analoguemusic posted.
Anyway In Naim site there is only the last 1.16 avaible for download.
Every help would be very appreciated.

Best Regards!

Carmine

Moderated Post:  Carmine, for your safety and to comply with forum rules I have edited your post and removed your e-mail address.  If you require earlier firmware, please e-mail Steve Hopkins at Naim on info@naimaudio.com.

I eagerly updated my DAC-V1 with the new firmware, but found the sound had changed to become smoother, perhaps superficially 'nicer', but without any musical soul.  I use the DAC-V1 as a headphone amplifier, and after the update I just couldn't be bothered to listen to it.  I contacted Naim to find out if I could roll the DAC-V1 back to the old firmware, and they kindly e-mailed the file, together with helpful instructions on how to force the DAC-V1 to apply it.

The result?  The music is back - the characteristic Naim vibrancy, timing and lyricism is restored.

I can see why many people prefer the smoother sound of the DAC-V1 with the new firmware, but that wasn't for me.  Anyway, all credit to Naim for sorting me out so quickly. 

Interesting to see feedback from the DAC-V1 update in comparison to the nDAC which seems to have had a universally result. 

Mayor West posted:

Interesting to see feedback from the DAC-V1 update in comparison to the nDAC which seems to have had a universally result. 

It is interesting, and I get the impression that the change in performance may be slightly larger on the DAC-V1 than with the nDAC.  It certainly was a big shock for me, and if you change a product that people have chosen because of the way it sounds, then there is always the risk that they won't like the change, even if most prefer it.  Factors like how it's used, what it's used with will make a lot of difference to how the change is perceived I would imagine.  Great thing is though, you can have it either way.  Mine won't be changing back though, it sounds fabulous into SN2.  Almost suspiciously good, like they were perhaps deliberately aligned to each other.  Who knows?

For me, the new V1  firmware is a keeper for sure. Be it on headphone listening session (HD650) or as a fixed source to original Supernait. Couldn't say it lost any sparkle or foot tapping factor, in fact it grabbed me so hard that after update I was listening all night long, just like years ago when I first stepped in more "proper" hifi. And possibility to play DSD is a big plus, even though I not expected much from it. Some DSD source material sounded as most "right" version of the same song I had on FLAC/WAV previously (be it CD or HiRes quality). Some sounded ok, but I still preferred original CD mastering version.  When I got V1 year ago it proven to be lot better that SN DAC overall, but on some tracks I even prefer more aggressive SD DAC approach, even though in pure technical aspects is not as great (like more "boomy" bass or cymbals not as refined). End result is always different when so many things could possibly go to equation (like dac, amp, speakers, cables, source material, or firmware) but at least in my particular case is very positive and definitely step up. I am afraid even to think, what could better this? Ah yeah, HicapDR, perharps... But even now is so great!

Andrius posted:

For me, the new V1  firmware is a keeper for sure. Be it on headphone listening session (HD650) or as a fixed source to original Supernait. Couldn't say it lost any sparkle or foot tapping factor, in fact it grabbed me so hard that after update I was listening all night long, just like years ago when I first stepped in more "proper" hifi. And possibility to play DSD is a big plus, even though I not expected much from it. Some DSD source material sounded as most "right" version of the same song I had on FLAC/WAV previously (be it CD or HiRes quality). Some sounded ok, but I still preferred original CD mastering version.  When I got V1 year ago it proven to be lot better that SN DAC overall, but on some tracks I even prefer more aggressive SD DAC approach, even though in pure technical aspects is not as great (like more "boomy" bass or cymbals not as refined). End result is always different when so many things could possibly go to equation (like dac, amp, speakers, cables, source material, or firmware) but at least in my particular case is very positive and definitely step up. I am afraid even to think, what could better this? Ah yeah, HicapDR, perharps... But even now is so great!

I don't listen with headphones, but in terms of feeding an amp, my word this update is something special.  Like yourself, I've had some very late nights listening since the update.  Even now, three weeks since I updated the thing, it continues to amaze me.  Not in an analytical way, I don't sit there thinking 'Wow, this sounds amazing', more importantly, I don't care that it sounds amazing, because that's not what's on my mind.  And that is the biggest compliment I can give to Naim.

SongStream posted:

Mayor West posted:

Interesting to see feedback from the DAC-V1 update in comparison to the nDAC which seems to have had a universally result. 

It is interesting, and I get the impression that the change in performance may be slightly larger on the DAC-V1 than with the nDAC.  It certainly was a big shock for me, and if you change a product that people have chosen because of the way it sounds, then there is always the risk that they won't like the change, even if most prefer it.  Factors like how it's used, what it's used with will make a lot of difference to how the change is perceived I would imagine.  Great thing is though, you can have it either way.  Mine won't be changing back though, it sounds fabulous into SN2.  Almost suspiciously good, like they were perhaps deliberately aligned to each other.  Who knows?

I was running a DAC-V1 with SN2 previously and it sounded great so I'm sure it will be sounding sweet as a nut with the new firmware. Will have to try and grab a listen somewhere when I have the chance!

Mayor West posted:

Interesting to see feedback from the DAC-V1 update in comparison to the nDAC which seems to have had a universally result. 

I didn't like the new firmware on my nDAC, so I installed back the old one.

SongStream posted:

BobbyBlitz posted:

Hi everyone! Is it possible to reload the old firmware? think lost some timing...

+ Bearing in mind your comments on the other firmware thread....Comments some have made, mainly referring to 'airy', remind me of my feelings when I first bought the V1 and ran it into a Cyrus 8vs.  Yes, it instantly impressed revealing more of everything, and it was musical, but in that system it just had no wallop, too tip-toe-like, and regardless of volume.  My Cyrus CD8x could not match the detail, separation and all that, but it delivered music like a complete animal

I had exactly the same impressions with the new firmware on my nDAC - it sounded emotionally flatter, less engaging, almost boring.

...But certainly airier.

Tried the FW before the holidays, thought it was an enormous rehaul of the system, consisting of PC/DAC V1/202/HC/NAPSC/150X/ARIVAS

Initially mostly impressed, but now after a week I tried changing back to 1.6 and all the traits why I have gathered this Naim setup became apparent once again. With the new 1.16 I think the sound from TV/Movies became much clearer and better, voices and deep bass much easier to distinguish - but the music doesn't quite sound right by Naim anymore!

For me the music from high-res albums got too much bass, a bit thinner sounding and became almost overly analytical in the treble. Although clearer with more timbre - the all so important punchy midbass and famous Naim signature of the whole presentation got lost somehow with the new FW.

I left the audio driver intact from the update (PC) when i rolled back FW to old 1.6 again, don't know if this would have any adverse effect? Anyone know?

Hello,

I am hearing dsd file downloaded from 2L site, the quality is very good, but I do not understand if the improvement is due to firmware update for my DAC-V1 including DSD update, done in the afternoon or simply due to file quality; actually on foobar if I select as output mode DSD in SACD tool..the playback is mute....working only on PCM mode; anyone knows why setting DSD in foobar doesn't plays? and how to make foobar playing with dsd output mode in SACD tool?

Thanks in advance, Massimo

well, DSD64 works for sure in Foobar2000, if done exactly as in "Foobar2000 configuration for use with NAIM DAC-V1" document provided in NAIM website. DSD128 gets an error in my setup, which is absent if I try it in jRiver. Is not a big deal for me though, as nearly all good sounding DSD files are DSD64. Maybe is me or my ears to blame, but 99% DSD128 files are so called "vinyl rips" which souds awful and original 16/44 CD rip of the same material outshines such DSD128 rips in nearly all aspects. It's just amazing how wonderful even "simple" 16/44 could sound on V1.

Henkerino posted:

Tried the FW before the holidays, thought it was an enormous rehaul of the system, consisting of PC/DAC V1/202/HC/NAPSC/150X/ARIVAS

Initially mostly impressed, but now after a week I tried changing back to 1.6 and all the traits why I have gathered this Naim setup became apparent once again. With the new 1.16 I think the sound from TV/Movies became much clearer and better, voices and deep bass much easier to distinguish - but the music doesn't quite sound right by Naim anymore!

For me the music from high-res albums got too much bass, a bit thinner sounding and became almost overly analytical in the treble. Although clearer with more timbre - the all so important punchy midbass and famous Naim signature of the whole presentation got lost somehow with the new FW.

I left the audio driver intact from the update (PC) when i rolled back FW to old 1.6 again, don't know if this would have any adverse effect? Anyone know?

 

I agree with this, I don't like the new firmware either, on both DAC V1 and on NDAC. It has more clarity but somehow the character of both DACS has changed, and the earlier one on DAC V1 was quite attractive to me musically. 

Henkerino posted:

Tried the FW before the holidays, thought it was an enormous rehaul of the system, consisting of PC/DAC V1/202/HC/NAPSC/150X/ARIVAS

Initially mostly impressed, but now after a week I tried changing back to 1.6 and all the traits why I have gathered this Naim setup became apparent once again. With the new 1.16 I think the sound from TV/Movies became much clearer and better, voices and deep bass much easier to distinguish - but the music doesn't quite sound right by Naim anymore!

For me the music from high-res albums got too much bass, a bit thinner sounding and became almost overly analytical in the treble. Although clearer with more timbre - the all so important punchy midbass and famous Naim signature of the whole presentation got lost somehow with the new FW.

I left the audio driver intact from the update (PC) when i rolled back FW to old 1.6 again, don't know if this would have any adverse effect? Anyone know?

 

I ran the old drivers for several weeks with the new firmware, and installed the new drivers over the holidays.  I did think afterwards that is sounded a little better still, but not really sure, and I'm not the kind of person that can be bothered with all this back and fourth business, so nothing definite about it even in my own mind.  It sounds great, I'm leaving it alone now.  

Best thing would be to try it with the new drivers, as with the firmware, you can always revert back to the original driver if you prefer.

After some listening, the impression I got concerning new firmware are very positive; with PCM, MP4 etc. file formats, the quality is improved especially for consistency of middle-bass frequencies; a little bit more details there, maybe just a bit more of further tonal darkening (high frequencies have always been a little bit missing according to me in DAC V-1 but I love it); with DSD files great jump  more dynamic, original reverberation and recostruction, more trasparency and sound immage a little bit more precise. Better and better, great Naim!!!

How do it do the install if I have a Macbook pro (I have a Naim DAC and also a UnitiQute)

I do apologize to Naim and everyone here, but I have gone back to the older firmware, and it seems more musical and more energetic to me. The old "naim" character is now back and it sure is fun to listen to 

But I have my DAC V1 on a power line.... maybe that is changing aspects of the sound to make it better with the older firmware?

analogmusic posted:

I do apologize to Naim and everyone here, but I have gone back to the older firmware, and it seems more musical and more energetic to me. The old "naim" character is now back and it sure is fun to listen to 

But I have my DAC V1 on a power line.... maybe that is changing aspects of the sound to make it better with the older firmware?

No, as I dont have the powerline but rhe same exact "issue".

My main concern is really that perhaps Naim is abandoning theire ideals here. Either that or this is an everyday mistake, which ofcourse would be more forgiveable.

For me it's really the question of "Would I go through all this system building and partnering trouble again? No!" ..If this new firmware was representative for "Naimsound" some years ago - I would've rather bought much simpler and more "lifestyle" type hifiproducts then my beloved seperates.

Hopefully they fix this "bug" with firmware or atleast tell if its only essential for pairing with newer products like DR-stuff and/or cabling to make it "right". And if so Im sticking as long as I can to what I own (with old fw)

analogmusic posted:

I do apologize to Naim and everyone here, but I have gone back to the older firmware, and it seems more musical and more energetic to me. The old "naim" character is now back and it sure is fun to listen to 

But I have my DAC V1 on a power line.... maybe that is changing aspects of the sound to make it better with the older firmware?

I have noted this is the second time on this thread you have preceded the expression of your own view an apology.  This is not necessary.  There is no right or wrong here, only a collection of personal preferences, and the reasoning behind them.  There are quite a few people who have agreed with you anyway.  Really, it's not a big deal, and I would not expect anyone to be offended if your view is different to theirs.

Considering going back to the old firmware myself. Where does one find a file?

charlesphoto posted:

Considering going back to the old firmware myself. Where does one find a file?

I don't believe it is available via the Naim website, but from what others have said, if you contact Naim, they will provide it for you.

It is a shame for those concerned to read of disappointment with the change that comes with firmware v1.16.  I hope that they find or rediscover the Naim sound that they have enjoyed before.

However, I am a little surprised.  Our little mac 'n dac streaming system sounded wonderfully musical with v1.5 firmware, so much so that I was hesitant to change anything.  

But music has so much more life, vitality & emotional engagement with firmware v1.16 loaded into the DAC-V1, at least to these cloth ears.  And this comes from someone who really appreciates the Naim sound from the CB and olive days.

Just goes to show that we each hear music differently.

Best regards, FT