DAC-V1 after firmware update, what is happening?

the Naim sound was back the the rig sounded full of energy with the older firmware.

Not sure why, as Naim do not release something new unless it is better.

I am quite puzzled by this issue, but I am staying with the old firmware for now.

SongStream posted:

analogmusic posted:

I do apologize to Naim and everyone here, but I have gone back to the older firmware, and it seems more musical and more energetic to me. The old "naim" character is now back and it sure is fun to listen to 

But I have my DAC V1 on a power line.... maybe that is changing aspects of the sound to make it better with the older firmware?

I have noted this is the second time on this thread you have preceded the expression of your own view an apology.  This is not necessary.  There is no right or wrong here, only a collection of personal preferences, and the reasoning behind them.  There are quite a few people who have agreed with you anyway.  Really, it's not a big deal, and I would not expect anyone to be offended if your view is different to theirs.

Thank you.

Have been using the old and new version with PL and the latest version continues to be fantastic with all music, movies and TV.

It gets the best of everything doenstream of it, too.

My set up is more musical than ever and full of groove and detail.

Well done, Naim.

The only thing I downgraded from over Xmas was from Audirvana 2.3 to 2.2.9.6.

With new firmware in my system especially bass lines became more clear and "faster". It is "less boomy" if I have right to express myself like that, as old firmware wasnt bad at all, but this new one is even better. But it is not bass lacking by any means nor stopped my foot tapping. Guess it's more system dependency or just preference as i couldnt fault it neither on speakers nor headphones.

The cables you use on DAC-V1 heavily influence the sound - get them right.

Hi

Agree that the firmware has definately improved the sound of this unit. Hope this isn't too far off topic but has anyone else had problems with the V1 'self muting' Sometimes doesn't happen for weeks and then will do it every 2 minutes. A restart usually sorts it but it's a bit odd.....

I have not experienced any self muting after upgrading my V1 to the latest firmware but... I have to agree with some previous comments about the slight loss in vitality and punch. I had been using the V1 as Dac & pre-amp driving the power stage of my Rega Elicit-R (in the meantime saving for a SN2 or a NAP200). I did this simply hoping to get 'closer' to the Naim sound until I am able to afford a NAP200 /SN2. Before the firmware upgrade I was happy with the sound... punchy, vibrant, rhythmic but felt it could use a bit more clarity / airiness. After the firmware upgrade I am perceiving more clarity and airiness (very welcome) BUT... a bit less punchy bass and a tiny bit less vibrancy in the music. Yes the bass lines are clearer and easy to follow but when playing at low to medium levels, I feel like I have to choose to focus on them to feel the rhythm. I perceived more punch and rhythm before (at same volume levels). It is as if the sound is a bit more neutral than before. To my ears this has some pros but also cons. I kind of missed the punch so I started using the V1 as a Dac only feeding the Line in of the Rega. This way I am getting a bit more of the punch back but with slight less clarity (Rega house sound I guess) . The overall sound feels more vibrant this way and I prefer it for now.

Not sure if my V1 would sound different/better with a NAP200 or the SN2 ... but with my current setup I could certainly perceive slightly less bass punch after the new firmware. 

I auditioned the V1 (with the old firmware) driving an XS2 and loved it. I feel that this experience is no longer valid as the new firmware may mean that the same setup will now sound different.

I am in a dilemma... Revert back to 1.6 or stick with 1.16 (and current setup) until I audition again to figure out the new synergy with the SN2 / NAP200.

Well, the "slightly less bass punch" as with Rega may become "slightly more bass punch" if used with SN2 (or original SN1 which I have, and it has plenty of punchyness). When you add into account your speakers and room accoustics, result may vary. 

Hi Andrius,  My hopes exactly :-)

YiannisK posted:

I have not experienced any self muting after upgrading my V1 to the latest firmware but... I have to agree with some previous comments about the slight loss in vitality and punch. I had been using the V1 as Dac & pre-amp driving the power stage of my Rega Elicit-R (in the meantime saving for a SN2 or a NAP200). I did this simply hoping to get 'closer' to the Naim sound until I am able to afford a NAP200 /SN2. Before the firmware upgrade I was happy with the sound... punchy, vibrant, rhythmic but felt it could use a bit more clarity / airiness. After the firmware upgrade I am perceiving more clarity and airiness (very welcome) BUT... a bit less punchy bass and a tiny bit less vibrancy in the music. Yes the bass lines are clearer and easy to follow but when playing at low to medium levels, I feel like I have to choose to focus on them to feel the rhythm. I perceived more punch and rhythm before (at same volume levels). It is as if the sound is a bit more neutral than before. To my ears this has some pros but also cons. I kind of missed the punch so I started using the V1 as a Dac only feeding the Line in of the Rega. This way I am getting a bit more of the punch back but with slight less clarity (Rega house sound I guess) . The overall sound feels more vibrant this way and I prefer it for now.

Not sure if my V1 would sound different/better with a NAP200 or the SN2 ... but with my current setup I could certainly perceive slightly less bass punch after the new firmware. 

I auditioned the V1 (with the old firmware) driving an XS2 and loved it. I feel that this experience is no longer valid as the new firmware may mean that the same setup will now sound different.

I am in a dilemma... Revert back to 1.6 or stick with 1.16 (and current setup) until I audition again to figure out the new synergy with the SN2 / NAP200.

 

DAC-V1 (as DAC only) + FW 1.16 + SN2 =  :-)

Simples.

My impression, is that the firmware upgrade improved only with dsd files, which sounds really fatastic; but flac play is worsened, less vitality and rythm, I am me too in doubt if restore old firmware version....

Mortalcoil posted:

Brilliant posted:

I had never tried a NAP100 before, but since there was one available to me I thought I might borrow it to see what it is like with the DAC-V1. To my surprise it seemed much less transparent than the DAC-V1 (with the v1.16) i.e. in my main system the sound seemed  'dull' relative to my normal amps.  I tried the SNAIC and also via the RCA inputs. If really this is the case, it could be a bit of a dilemma as I believe many DAC-V1 users probably have it hooked up to a NAP100 (as it is deemed the natural match up).  Naim should  look at this and perhaps come up with a NAP100i  for this 'new' DAC-V1? Only IMHO of course.

I don't own the NAP100, none the less very interesting observation Brilliant.

Having read in another thread here about a reduction in transparency between the DAC-V1 'fixed' and the pre-amp volume controlled output, I must re-qualify my observtaion. Obviously I could not try the 'fixed' option with the NAP 100 so it might be the reduced performance of the DAC-V1 volume control circuitry that was at play. I normally use the DAC-V1 in 'fixed' output mode, so my conclusions quoted above (that the NAP100 might be holding it back) might be wrong -  I just did not figure on the possibility that the DAC-V1 pre-amp itself might be the culprit! I wish I had thought of that as I could have used another pre-amp for comparison. Perhaps another day!

Certainly [not surely] the comparison should be not to a Turn-table but real life listening at a real concert!

Or else the result will be a parody of real music making ... any turntable- even to this day - is nothing but a bastardisation of the real concert experience ...

Maximo posted:

The difference between before and after the firmware update, is big; I hold
the combination dac v1+ nap 100; first of all the typical naim rythm and
presence are anylonger recognizable; it seems less analogic the sound; less
similar to turntable's soud as it was before; with dsd files the quality is
very high, but I hardly recognized the kind of sound before firmware
update, I loved so much...seriously thinking to restote old release��

Il venerdì 22 gennaio 2016, Naim Audio Forums <alerts@hoop.la> ha scritto:

It is obvious there is something bothering you about the 1.16 upgrade - but just to understand better what you are  saying - the DSD files are reproduced with the 'Naim sound', but not the PCM files and they are from the same recording/mastering? They need to be from the same source to have a meaningful comparison of the playback! Some websites give free samples of these (e.g. 2L Nordic)

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Certainly [not surely] the comparison should be not to a Turn-table but real life listening at a real concert!

Or else the result will be a parody of real music making ... any turntable- even to this day - is nothing but a bastardisation of the real concert experience ...

A good point, George.  I've never aspired to make my system sound like an LP12 / 500 , instead I've tried my best to make it sound real.  With some success I might add, to my ears anyway.  All hifi is a compromise, even that old radio of yours. ;-)

It is not easy to explain, but improvement on DSD side does not go to the same direction as before; the Naim sound has changed for me, timbre has changed, rhythm has changed; heat and solid midrange (I have two way speakers) along with strong rhythm is not as before; the improvement on dsd side goes to more airiness, trasparency, maybe resolution, but the tonal character of my sistem is different now, it sound less 'british'. 

That's all....

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Certainly [not surely] the comparison should be not to a Turn-table but real life listening at a real concert!

Or else the result will be a parody of real music making ... any turntable- even to this day - is nothing but a bastardisation of the real concert experience ...

Exactly George.. A turntable can sound very attractive, I absolutely agree, but it is a long way from real life with its distortions and limitations.. If you like the turntable distortions, get a turntable.. I certainly did for a while. Good audio reproduction equipment in my opinion should get you closer to real life, not closer to an alternate distorted version of it, unless you after some some sort of special effect of course.

Simon

robin_dj posted:

Hi

Agree that the firmware has definately improved the sound of this unit. Hope this isn't too far off topic but has anyone else had problems with the V1 'self muting' Sometimes doesn't happen for weeks and then will do it every 2 minutes. A restart usually sorts it but it's a bit odd.....

I had this symptom way back. The problem was a faulty mute switch (built into the Naim logo).  It was fixed by Naim via my dealer (as it is quite easy to do apparently).

So,it's worth getting your unit checkd out via your dealer.

HTH

Jude

Perhaps I can get the less punchy perception.  I find the bass much more defined rather than 'on-off'.  The dynamics , if in a track (DSD or PCM), are there in spades as is PRAT.  Software player and USB cable are a signicant influence. 

Maximo posted:

It is not easy to explain, but improvement on DSD side does not go to the same direction as before; the Naim sound has changed for me, timbre has changed, rhythm has changed; heat and solid midrange (I have two way speakers) along with strong rhythm is not as before; the improvement on dsd side goes to more airiness, trasparency, maybe resolution, but the tonal character of my sistem is different now, it sound less 'british'. 

That's all....

 

I have no DSD music files (nor have I much interest in buying any), but playing PCM through the DAC-V1, I agree entirely with your comments.  Restoring the older firmware brought back the vitality of the music that pretty much evaporated with 1.16 installed.  It's not difficult to roll back to 1.6, so my advice is to do just that, then decide which you prefer.  For me, the DAC-V1 with the old 1.6 firmware is a lovely musical companion, a true 'keeper'; with 1.16 I would have sold it had there not been the option to roll back.

Thanks for advise, just to know...to roll back to old version is sufficient to use the function of dac v1 to restore original firm setting?

Jude2012 posted:

robin_dj posted:

Hi

Agree that the firmware has definately improved the sound of this unit. Hope this isn't too far off topic but has anyone else had problems with the V1 'self muting' Sometimes doesn't happen for weeks and then will do it every 2 minutes. A restart usually sorts it but it's a bit odd.....

I had this symptom way back. The problem was a faulty mute switch (built into the Naim logo).  It was fixed by Naim via my dealer (as it is quite easy to do apparently).

So,it's worth getting your unit checkd out via your dealer.

HTH

Jude

 

 

Jude.

Thanks for the reply, I had thought that I would need to get it looked at but put it looked at as I don't want to be without it for an extended period. Let's hope my dealer has a 'loaner'

Maximo posted:

Thanks for advise, just to know...to roll back to old version is sufficient to use the function of dac v1 to restore original firm setting?

Yes, that is the case.  You need to install the older firmware, then force the DAC-V1 to apply it over the new firmware.

I can send you the old firmware file, with Naim's instructions on how to intall it, if you wish (it's not quite so simple as it was installing the latest version).  If you would like this, just send me a private message with your e-mail address.