DAC-V1 after firmware update, what is happening?

Shuggie posted:

Maximo posted:

Thanks for advise, just to know...to roll back to old version is sufficient to use the function of dac v1 to restore original firm setting?

Yes, that is the case.  You need to install the older firmware, then force the DAC-V1 to apply it over the new firmware.

I can send you the old firmware file, with Naim's instructions on how to intall it, if you wish (it's not quite so simple as it was installing the latest version).  If you would like this, just send me a private message with your e-mail address.

 

Yes please, but I do not see a way to send private message...

Shuggie posted:

Maximo posted:

Thanks for advise, just to know...to roll back to old version is sufficient to use the function of dac v1 to restore original firm setting?

Yes, that is the case.  You need to install the older firmware, then force the DAC-V1 to apply it over the new firmware.

I can send you the old firmware file, with Naim's instructions on how to intall it, if you wish (it's not quite so simple as it was installing the latest version).  If you would like this, just send me a private message with your e-mail address.

 

Hi there!

I have both firmware files on my mac, and I have been changing them forth and back some times with the regular procedure of checking if it was bit perfect and then ran the firmware files. Seemingly this has worked several times. The 'about' section of the firmware menu has confirmed both 1.6 and 1.16 after changing.

Is there something I am missing that I should have done differently?

I tried writing a mail to support about instructions, but I was disappointed that they never got back to me, so I went ahead.

Now I tried it again today and it worked going back to 1.6. Then I tried going up to 1.16 again and then the DAC-V1 seemed t freeze on this screen:

"Firmware update. Firmware update complete. Please wait 10 seconds while writing the firmware to flash. When complete, device will reboot automatically. DO NOT POWER DOWN!"

And there it still is...

What should I do? Would be grateful for helpful tips on my next step...

^I think I have experienced the freeze on the final screen before reboot. I believe I just toggled the power. If you do that check via Settings after turning it back on whether it completed the update.

This is what I received from Phil Harris at Naim:

"You should update the unit as normal, you will then need to force the DAC-V1 manually to apply the older firmware by powering off the unit for 30 seconds and then powering it on again with the front panel “1” and “3” buttons held down together until the DAC-V1 shows a message saying that it is updating itself …

You should then be back to the previous firmware version."

I've placed a copy of the old firmware that Phil sent me on OneDrive at https://onedrive.live.com/redi...mp;ithint=file%2cwav 

I hope that's OK with the moderators .

Maximo posted:

It is not easy to explain, but improvement on DSD side does not go to the same direction as before; the Naim sound has changed for me, timbre has changed, rhythm has changed; heat and solid midrange (I have two way speakers) along with strong rhythm is not as before; the improvement on dsd side goes to more airiness, trasparency, maybe resolution, but the tonal character of my sistem is different now, it sound less 'british'. 

That's all....

 

okay - you do not like the update whether in DSD nor PCM. Best for you to revert to 1.6 then.

I find the 1.16 to be very well balanced and 'extremely musical'.  I currently have DAC-V1/Win7/JRiver19/Desktop hooked up (in fixed output mode) to a 1989 NAIT 2. I used 10 ft Belkin Gold USB A extension and A/B adapter and some custom interconnects and DIY speakers. Frankly I find it hard to stop listening and no desire to do any vinyl comparisons! NAIM apparently streamlined the DSP code - 'got rid of the sillies' - that is what I hear.

ATB

B.

Thanks a lot, I will evaluate in this period if hold on, or roll back, as, actually, dsd sounds rather fine!!

You are welcome - take all the time and obviously pick what you like best!

Did anybody tried V1 USB in Linux? I asking this, because I heard alot people claim Linux provides far better sound than Windows or MAC. There are also some commercial USB out streamers based on stripped Linux versions, like SoTM SMS-100. Wonder if anyone in this forum tried product like this and what opinions they have?

P.S. I know it's a bit out of topic, but it's V1 lovers tread after all

I had some issues with my DAC-V1 and USB (random distortions in the sound) in Windows running Roon or JRiver, tried a MAC and had the same issue, invested in USB re-clockers, USB power conditioners, etc. and nothing helped, then read somewhere about the fact that the DAC-V1 doesn't need the 5V power wire in the USB cable as it handles these matters itself, bought a simple 10 Euro device (VBus Isolator) that effectively shields the power line in the USB cable (cuts if off basically) and all problems gone, my system sounds even better with this simple, cheap fix...

The little gadget is here: https://www.sbooster.com/sboos...ooster-vbus-isolator

Cheers....

I am so curious if anyone that considers the previous firmware better (me included) compared the naim dac with any of the latest Chord dac.

Shuggie posted:

This is what I received from Phil Harris at Naim:

"You should update the unit as normal, you will then need to force the DAC-V1 manually to apply the older firmware by powering off the unit for 30 seconds and then powering it on again with the front panel “1” and “3” buttons held down together until the DAC-V1 shows a message saying that it is updating itself …

You should then be back to the previous firmware version."

I've placed a copy of the old firmware that Phil sent me on OneDrive at https://onedrive.live.com/redi...mp;ithint=file%2cwav 

I hope that's OK with the moderators .

All I did was installing 1.6 (as doing it normally) over the newer 1.16 and it went quicker then the previous other-way-around.

After a reset it clearly states 1.6 is installed. The holding 1&3 buttons thing I didn't do and also kept latest win driver.

..Sound went back to old FW, atleast to my ears so shouldn't be an issue then that I didn't do it exactly like your post states?

Regards /H

Maximo posted:

Yesterday I passed all the day to listen the new firmware; I must admit I
have not yet clear idea what I will do, as if is true that the great rhythm
and warm deliveries are diminished, on high frequency, refinment is
improved, and also on the opposite, mid-bass is more precise; maybe now is
more neutral, but musicality is not the same as before: a dilemma ��

Il domenica 24 gennaio 2016, Naim Audio Forums <alerts@hoop.la> ha scritto:

Totally agree with your observations Maximo, I also find the sound to be more refined, a bit more neutral than before with a slight loss in punchiness (mid bass). I am also not sure if I will stick with it or go back to the old firmware...

Just wanted to add to the conversation that I have been using the V1 in conjunction with my Simaudio 430HA-D and loving every minute of it.

The 430HA-D has its own DAC incorporated into it (Sabre based),  for musicality though the V1 is certainly proving itself.

Still enjoying the newer firmware.

I did a back and forth of new vs old firmware, and the old one is significantly more musical to my ears, (this into a 202/200/NAPSC). I do hear the newer firmware is more more smooth and pleasant on the ears to listen to though.

Not sure what is going on here, I am very sure Naim would never release a firmware that is less musical than the older one.

How many folk singers does it take to change a light bulb?

Nine - one to change the bulb and eight to sing about how good the old one was.  

This really has divided opinion. The DAC-V1 sounded excellent with the older software, no doubt about that. However for me the new updated 1.16 has improved things further. In my system there is no loss of musicality at all. With the new 1.16 software the DAC-V1 has definitely opened up more. I am hearing more detail, more clarity and a little more weight to the bass, which for me in my system is better. I am using mine with a NAP200 and its a lovely combination.

Ian.

analogmusic posted:

I did a back and forth of new vs old firmware, and the old one is significantly more musical to my ears, (this into a 202/200/NAPSC). I do hear the newer firmware is more more smooth and pleasant on the ears to listen to though.

Not sure what is going on here, I am very sure Naim would never release a firmware that is less musical than the older one.

That Naim thought was less msuical [in their subjective opinion] than the older one ...

Hungryhalibut posted:

How many folk singers does it take to change a light bulb?

Nine - one to change the bulb and eight to sing about how good the old one was.  

possibly the funniest thing today..

analogmusic posted:

I did a back and forth of new vs old firmware, and the old one is significantly more musical to my ears, (this into a 202/200/NAPSC). I do hear the newer firmware is more more smooth and pleasant on the ears to listen to though.

Not sure what is going on here, I am very sure Naim would never release a firmware that is less musical than the older one.

Two months since the update and you're still going back and fourth?  Why?  As I recall, you are of the view that the DAC-V1 is surpassed in every regard (old and new firmware alike) by the Chord Hugo, which you also own.  Why on earth are you still worrying about it?

Yes, opinion is divided, this comes as no surprise to me at all.  I said before that the effect will be different depending on how the DAC-V1 is used, and of course the partnering equipment.  Furthermore, I suspect the difference is also perceived differently depending on what you typically listen to.  As an example, say that Metallica, Slip Knot, and Royal Blood sound better with the old firmware, and perhaps the Hugo too, well, this is of little concern to me personally.  Although I sometimes do listen to said bands, except for Slip Knot...and Metallica.  Now, say for example that the new firmware sounds better with Anne Bisson, Seasick Steve, and London Grammar, while being maybe less engaging with Royal Blood.  That's an easy choice for me.  Not that I particularly feel that exact scenario is the case, but where it excels is with the type of music I typically listen to on a daily basis.  And that very thing will vary enormously between users of all kit.

Just wanted to add a bit of an update... I have experimented a bit and two things have happened over time:

i) I totally agree with songstream that the resulting sound is system dependent and, ii) I was able to recreate the 'lost' punchiness (in my system). How did I do this... changed rca interconnects to Chord chameleon (from Athas Hyper), changed the coaxial cable to a chord prodac with BNC connection (from rca) and used the Dac as fixed line out to the Rega Elicit-R as integrated (from using the Rega as power amp only).

Prior to the V1's latest firmware the above configuration was not pleasant at all. Now it sounded very close to the punchy sound I was getting before the V1's firmware. Go figure...

Surprisingly however, I am gradually getting used to and I am beginning to appreciate the new firmware even with the slight reduced punchiness. I am actually back to using the Dac V1 as a Dac and Preamp feeding the Rega's power stage and with a few cable swaps I am getting happier with what i hear. I am beginning to appreciate the extra clarity, openness and overall neutrality.

System dependent result for sure but I am gradually liking it more now.

^ great  - keep tweaking! Cables count! If using coax spdif,  you can try engaging SRC on that input. I found it to improve on my PC sources.

re USB: In my setup - the DAC V1  is great with an older dual core desktop-better than with a top spec HP Elitebook, probably due to lower overall noise interference (and better power supply)!

@Maximo

My experience is in slight contrast to yours, but if you like the way DSD is played back better- assuming you have a good player, you can transcode PCM to DSD and see how that works out for you!

ATB

B.

SongStream posted:

analogmusic posted:

I did a back and forth of new vs old firmware, and the old one is significantly more musical to my ears, (this into a 202/200/NAPSC). I do hear the newer firmware is more more smooth and pleasant on the ears to listen to though.

Not sure what is going on here, I am very sure Naim would never release a firmware that is less musical than the older one.

Two months since the update and you're still going back and fourth?  Why?  As I recall, you are of the view that the DAC-V1 is surpassed in every regard (old and new firmware alike) by the Chord Hugo, which you also own.  Why on earth are you still worrying about it?

Yes, opinion is divided, this comes as no surprise to me at all.  I said before that the effect will be different depending on how the DAC-V1 is used, and of course the partnering equipment.  Furthermore, I suspect the difference is also perceived differently depending on what you typically listen to.  As an example, say that Metallica, Slip Knot, and Royal Blood sound better with the old firmware, and perhaps the Hugo too, well, this is of little concern to me personally.  Although I sometimes do listen to said bands, except for Slip Knot...and Metallica.  Now, say for example that the new firmware sounds better with Anne Bisson, Seasick Steve, and London Grammar, while being maybe less engaging with Royal Blood.  That's an easy choice for me.  Not that I particularly feel that exact scenario is the case, but where it excels is with the type of music I typically listen to on a daily basis.  And that very thing will vary enormously between users of all kit.

Funny part of this story is fact, that in my ears and in my system, bands like Soundgarden, Rage against the machine or Audioslave sounds goddamn powerful and right with the new firmware. Especially in the low end registers, where the bass is lot faster and clearer. Other rock/metal bands damn awesome too, and its the music type I listen most. Its powerful, but not overpowered (relatively) like older firmware or SN1 DAC was.

Andrius posted:

SongStream posted:

analogmusic posted:

I did a back and forth of new vs old firmware, and the old one is significantly more musical to my ears, (this into a 202/200/NAPSC). I do hear the newer firmware is more more smooth and pleasant on the ears to listen to though.

Not sure what is going on here, I am very sure Naim would never release a firmware that is less musical than the older one.

Two months since the update and you're still going back and fourth?  Why?  As I recall, you are of the view that the DAC-V1 is surpassed in every regard (old and new firmware alike) by the Chord Hugo, which you also own.  Why on earth are you still worrying about it?

Yes, opinion is divided, this comes as no surprise to me at all.  I said before that the effect will be different depending on how the DAC-V1 is used, and of course the partnering equipment.  Furthermore, I suspect the difference is also perceived differently depending on what you typically listen to.  As an example, say that Metallica, Slip Knot, and Royal Blood sound better with the old firmware, and perhaps the Hugo too, well, this is of little concern to me personally.  Although I sometimes do listen to said bands, except for Slip Knot...and Metallica.  Now, say for example that the new firmware sounds better with Anne Bisson, Seasick Steve, and London Grammar, while being maybe less engaging with Royal Blood.  That's an easy choice for me.  Not that I particularly feel that exact scenario is the case, but where it excels is with the type of music I typically listen to on a daily basis.  And that very thing will vary enormously between users of all kit.

Funny part of this story is fact, that in my ears and in my system, bands like Soundgarden, Rage against the machine or Audioslave sounds goddamn powerful and right with the new firmware. Especially in the low end registers, where the bass is lot faster and clearer. Other rock/metal bands damn awesome too, and its the music type I listen most. Its powerful, but not overpowered (relatively) like older firmware or SN1 DAC was.

Even funnier part is, I would not argue.  Rage Against the Machine is a great sounding album, and a reference for me when auditioning, and is really fun with the new firmware.  While Rage.. is not representative of the type of music I mainly listen to, I would be concerned if any piece of equipment, or update, did not deliver it well.  And I agree that the new firmware does, and better than ever.  My hypothesis should not be taken literally; two of the 'heavy' bands mentioned I've never even heard on my system, old or new firmware.  However, the distorted and in-your-face nature of the Royal Blood album, has had the sting taken out of its tail slightly since the update.  Said album will probably never sound technically good on any system, as the mix is....well, what it is, but it does work somehow, and possibly better with the old firmware.  In the grand scheme of things though, this is not a big deal for me; near enough everything else sounds better with the new firmware to me.  It's all about compromise with hifi, simple as that.