From Superuniti to nac172xs/200

Have you demoed the 172/200 combo? How does it compare to the SU sq wise? 

I haven't this is just spur of the moment, after reading a few posts from members

Is that combo a step down to the SU? I haven't heard either so I'm just asking but the SAC in the SU can play DSD and the 172 can't right?

Don't do it. Add a 250DR to the SU and then swap the SU for a 272. There is no point losing money on the SU and then even more when you sell the 172/200. 

I can only suggest you listen to both options and decide yourself. Other people's opinions are interesting to a point, but the only one that matters is yours. 

Keep the SU for the time being and get the 250dr. It sounds wonderful and will do a great job till 272 obtained. Less financial loss and good enough to live with in the long term.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Don't do it. Add a 250DR to the SU and then swap the SU for a 272. There is no point losing money on the SU and then even more when you sell the 172/200. 

Absolutely!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Don't do it. Add a 250DR to the SU and then swap the SU for a 272. There is no point losing money on the SU and then even more when you sell the 172/200. 

+1

Despite what others have posted, the SU is a very good Naim machine, and it would take a 272/250DR to better it, a 172/200 is a sideways move

I agree with Gary, I would listen before you do anything. The 172 certainly hits above its weight, but I have only heard it with a NAP300.. where it sounded very good indeed.

Simon

Personally I preferred the 172/200 to a SU, however if your end goal is likely to be a 272/250, then I think/feel you should aim to do that in as few steps as possible as invariably you will lose a lot of hard earned dosh the more steps you take.

Hi,

i had a SU, from time to time with bi-amp 200, before finally arrived to 272/250DR.
After the SU had a 172/250 without DR.

I can tell it is a very BIG step forward from 172/250 to 272/250DR in spectrum and control.
For now, a XP5 XS connected, but thinking about to go the XPS way...

JogoVogo posted:

Hi,

i had a SU, from time to time with bi-amp 200, before finally arrived to 272/250DR.
After the SU had a 172/250 without DR.

I can tell it is a very BIG step forward from 172/250 to 272/250DR in spectrum and control.
For now, a XP5 XS connected, but thinking about to go the XPS way...

How was the SU compared to the 172?

The 172/250 combination play, lets say, definitely "more open" as the SU.
I think almost all separates from naim play a little bit more "soundy" as the uniti series.

regards
ron

Could someone please explain the differences replacing a Superuniti with a 272 both on a 250DR?

Just exchanged my 250.2 with a brand new 250DR and so far it is far superior and I only got it yesterday!

I won't be changing the Superuniti for a while and plan to demo nearer the time but it would be good to hear what the 272 brings.

Many thanks

Russ.

Russt posted:

Could someone please explain the differences replacing a Superuniti with a 272 both on a 250DR?

Just exchanged my 250.2 with a brand new 250DR and so far it is far superior and I only got it yesterday!

I won't be changing the Superuniti for a while and plan to demo nearer the time but it would be good to hear what the 272 brings.

Many thanks

Russ.

Hi russ,

had original your setup. SU with amp-section off, 250 as amp with and without DR.

I think the preamp and streaming sections in the 272 are (far) better.

Now, 272/xp5xs/250dr.

Try it! And with a external PS, almost  perfect.

Russt posted:

Could someone please explain the differences replacing a Superuniti with a 272 both on a 250DR?

Just exchanged my 250.2 with a brand new 250DR and so far it is far superior and I only got it yesterday!

I won't be changing the Superuniti for a while and plan to demo nearer the time but it would be good to hear what the 272 brings.

Many thanks

Russ.

I have lived with the Superuniti and 250DR for 5 months or so, trading the SU in on a 272 10 days ago. The SU/250DR combo is very easy to live with. The music is perhaps a bit more one dimensional compared to the 272 and there is a greater separation of instruments and better bass with the 272. The 272 allows you to see the music in a more 3 dimensional way, and it is quite an unsettling change after the SU/250Dr where things were simpler to understand being more straightforward, if you get my drift. Overall a good change but I would be happy to live with the SU/250Dr long term if I could not go up to the 272.

You'll love the 272. Combined with the 250DR it's another world compared to the SU, great as the latter is. Then it's an XPS DR.....

analogmusic posted:

 

 Despite what others have posted, the SU is a very good Naim machine, and it would take a 272/250DR to better it, a 172/200 is a sideways move

 

yes SU is a very good all in one, probably the best all-in-one you can get on the market today... i have spend a few periods with it, over a few pair of speakers, and i have to say that it is indeed a dam fine machine.

but, nevertheless, 172/200(DR) is not just a side move! and while 272/250 is better, just from VFM point of view, 172/200(dr or not) beats both SU and 272/250(DR).

yes some here bought 272/250DR maybe with PSUs also... they have spent a LOT of money on those combos... of course they will say that the jump in quality is enormous, huge, cataclismic, undescribable etc...

i said this and i will say it again, the difference between 200DR and 250DR is rather subtle, and not in your face. (and please don't get me again to the story that with 172 you cannot feel correctly the differences because 1. the 172 is a very good piece of kit, which can front honestly and way decently literally every piece of non-SF priced power amp and speaker  and 2. a way better amp is a way better amp, period!)

many have had the older 250.2, non DR, which had a slight different voicing and since the new 250DR is more neutral, they perceived the difference as night and day... but please, do compare 250DR with the same generation amps, like 200DR and 300DR!

there are also a lot users which have never heard 200DR... but they will say that there is no real difference in the amp side from an older non-DR version, which is as wrong as one can guess...

my opinon is that if you really have the means to test a combo that you have in mind, do test it, at home, on your known environment and on your own speakers. you wil see for yourself which combo suits the best your taste, experience and wallet.

those who indicate 250DR at - literally - every single thread, don't offer you a few hundred quid to help you get one, do they?

to make it clear, i will never say that 250DR is not a marvel piece of kit, because it probably is the best one piece amp on the market today, no matter the price, but somehow Naim managed with a lessed design, and cheaper product, to get at - maybe - more than 95% of it with the 200DR. not to mention, you can power decently a good preamp like 152, 202 or 282 with it's DRed PSU.

Catalinmetal, how old was the 250DR you heard?

It does need quite a lot of burn in, so unless you have heard one fully run in, I would not jump to conclusions that the 200 DR is 95 % of the 250 DR.

How could it be? different transistors, different regulation?

Catalinmetal, not everyone on here share your views on your source last theory, or 172/200DR giant killer status, but you seem hell bent on spreading your views as fact. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

In the OP's first post, they say that the 272/250DR is where they want to go. All I, and others, are saying is that the most economical way of getting there is by adding a 250 then swapping the SU for a 272. Whether a 172/200 is better than the SU is therefore irrelevant. 

Always listen with ones own ear lugs and do a home demo if you can. Me personally I would keep the SU and add the 250dr as others have mentioned.

gary yeowell posted:

Catalinmetal, not everyone on here share your views on your source last theory, or 172/200DR giant killer status, but you seem hell bent on spreading your views as fact. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

gary, i never said "giant killer"... is more like others say about 272/250DR this or something similar... i just happen to think that 172/200DR is a very good VFM combo in Naim range and not only. i could afford the bigger combo with a little greater effort, but for this time being, i don't think it's worth for me... and i still have ways to improve the setup that i have with less bucks than changing the amp or the whole combo... to me it's a different journey with a lot more satisfactions to taste.

analogmusic posted:

Catalinmetal, how old was the 250DR you heard?

It does need quite a lot of burn in, so unless you have heard one fully run in, I would not jump to conclusions that the 200 DR is 95 % of the 250 DR.

How could it be? different transistors, different regulation?

did you ever heard them side by side, fully or not broken in?

it's easier to throw the rock, isn't it?

for your info, the amps were of the same age, and (probably) the same usage. although i think the 250DR had a lot more burn in since my dealer leaves most of the new gear for many days in a row to play at quite high volumes - sometimes - to burn in... a thing i cannot do at home...

i know about the tech differences between 200DR and 250DR, i have a degree in electronics, but... in the end, i buy the sound, not materials or tech... i buy the result, and so are you! if you think that an amp has a way better sound than other, will it matter literally what's inside?

Hungryhalibut posted:

In the OP's first post, they say that the 272/250DR is where they want to go. All I, and others, are saying is that the most economical way of getting there is by adding a 250 then swapping the SU for a 272. Whether a 172/200 is better than the SU is therefore irrelevant. 

HH, i always value you contributions, and in the first part you're right, if OP wants  that combo as destination, is better from budget point of view to make it in less steps than in more... i couldn't agree more on this.

but as for second part... i cannot agree. since he actually brought it to the table, IS very relevant that separates combo is better than all-in-one... that some will choose the all-in-one for various reasons, ergonomy and such, that is an entire different discussion... but for SQ, 172/200DR is better than SU. i always speak comparatively from experience of serious listening tests and comparisons. when  the experience is too brief or inconclusive, i will say so, or usually i will not mention about or post anything.

but i agree with you all, we don't have to share the same views! that's the fun of the forum!

PS: i felt that the 250DR has a lot of love here, i think that 200DR deserves at least one person to advocate it's goodies after all, we are in the same (Naim) boat, aren't we?!

Actually I don't doubt that a 172/200 is better than the SU, the question is whether it's better enough to justify the loss when ultimately it gets traded against the better combo. Only the OP will be able to answer that. In the meantime, I don't think I can add anything useful to what's been said already. 

Catalin, I don't have a degree in electronics, but the advances that I read about in terms of the non-ferrous materials used in the 009 transistors 250DR, the ceramic base instead of the Mica ones used in 007 transistors, and the DR regulation which give it a noise floor 30 times lower than 250.2 seemed like a serious advance to me, and now that I heard it, I can agree.

Anyway I do like the NAP 200 a lot, since I made some set up improvements which included re-termination of my NACA 5 and resoldering, and also moving to RCA-DIN interconnects, which made the music almost perfect to my ears.

But still despite all this, the 250DR when properly run in has more "grunt", more grip, and sounds a lot more musical to me. I hear bass notes that I never heard on the 200, and this is very enjoyable and adds a lot to the music.

Naim could not release a 250DR which was only 5 % better than a 200 and then charge a lot more money for it.  Ovators are designed to be compatible with Naim amplifiers at the Nap 200 level, and maybe even with Uniti. But the 250 DR is capable of a lot more with more demanding speakers.

I always enjoy reading what you write, so please don't get defensive, this is a forum, and if we all agreed then it would be a boring place wouldn't it.

 I did a test of 552/200 against 552/500 and then 552/250.2 and then understood why Naim's premium amplifiers are regulated. 

As good as the unregulated ones are, the regulated amps starting from 250, are just a lot better musically to my ears.