At What Cost (Law of Diminishing Returns)

Posted by: Mr Frog on 11 December 2015

Firstly, I must say that I am really pleased that owners/supporters of the Naim DAC have been 'rewarded' with a new Firmware upgrade - taking their device to a new level. This is good news.

I also see that there are many comments regarding how some are convinced that it now outperforms the much praised Chord Hugo .... but that it is very close!

To be honest, I would sincerely hope that the Naim does outperform the Hugo - considering that it costs considerably more.

i.e Chord Hugo £1400 v Naim DAC + 555 PS £8370

That's almost six times the cost, but at this level, there is absolutely no way that in sound quality terms, it could possibly be six times better.

Even comparing Hugo to a 'bare' Naim DAC (without external PSU), there is a £1000 difference in price - but does it deliver £1K worth of improvement in sound quality? 

Chord have produced a new DAC (DAVE) costing £8K .... but it needs to sound incredible to justify costing over five times that of its 'sibling' (Hugo)

Naim are a fantastic audio company and I own some of their products, but "sound-for-pound", Naim doesn't always deliver.

If 'money is no object', then cost will be irrelevant ..... but for most people, it is important to source products which represent the best possible sound quality at any respective price point.

 At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Many years ago, I owned an all Linn active system and looked to upgrade 4 of the amps. The cost at the time was £8K for the upgrade.

I had systematically upgraded my Linn system for years and simply got caught in the trap of believing "only Linn would sound right" - how wrong I was.

I compared the Linn system to ATC SCM50ASL (active speakers with x3 amps built in) ay £6K

For £2K less, the ATC system was actually far superior - absolutely night and day.

I've owned the ATC's for 16 years now and I've yet to hear anything that represents such awesome sound quality, for their given price point.

The point to all this ...... be open minded and don't get caught in the cycle of believing that one manufacturer alone, always has the best product.

 

Posted on: 11 December 2015 by Klyde

+1 for ATC.

Posted on: 11 December 2015 by TOBYJUG

I have consistently found that in a " high street shop" dealer selling hifi  who sells Naim , Naim is always one of the expensive brands.  In a more specialist " high end shop" Naim is usually sold amongst brands that cost a hell lot more.   As a high end brand Naim offers more value for money than many others.

Hifi is a buyers market more than a sellers market I think - how many one hit wonders can you think of that done well for a few years and then disappeared .

my logic of diminishing returns is only commensurate with how deep the pockets go.

Posted on: 11 December 2015 by Eloise

Interestingly if you look at the Naim power amp range ... each step is approximately double in terms of cost; though I suspect no one would suggest there is a doubling of quality from one amp to the next - each perhaps being 80-90% of the next step up?

Posted on: 12 December 2015 by Harry

An analysis of cost but nowhere a mention of value. The lowest cost you can pay for superb audio playback at any quality you chose is some oxygen and glucose, which will keep your brain going while you play back a perfect recording in your head.  

Some upgrades must obviously follow the diminishing returns route. But don't assume everything does. Some changes can be transformational. Listen for yourself and don't make assumptions based on numbers. It doesn't work like that. 

The assumption that we all buy Naim blindly is fundamentally wrong.  Sitting down and reading the forum for half an hour would have prevented that error.

Posted on: 13 December 2015 by Claus-Thoegersen

The law does apply, how much is impossible to say, since we do not have a scale that can messure and compare quality.

Naim is  expensive and with the digital systems many routes leed to redundancy in the system, wich is nothing you want to pay for. However the high second hand prices and the possibilities for service and upgrades should be taken into account.

I would never have been able to build my current system with most other brands where you ahave to buy the entire system at one pricepoint,, and where the secondhand value is more normal compared to Naim.

 

Claus