Carbon Footprint Disconnect?

Dear Doug,

As you note, the real problem for the future and even the present is the size of the human population. 

There is no solution to this. No solution that can be imposed. Who would do the imposing?

Who would frame the rules? 

I am now fifty-four. I am guessing that worst of it will comes after I have died. For myself, I have no offspring ...

That is my most significant contribution that anyone can make, though I do try on a personal level as well - though of course one person trying to moderate carbon emissions can easily be trumped by another doing the opposite.

ATB from George

Penarth Blues posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Penarth Blues posted:
"I think the reality is that until face-to-face business meetings are no longer possible (probably for financial reasons) then there will always be a demand for air travel."Most air travel is not for business (15%), it is for recreation (85%).

"Don's rather obnoxiously presented viewpoint about physically needing to see loved ones (and interesting places by extension) is another major reason flights will continue to increase as the world increases the numbers of people living on it." Putting aside the pathetic use of derogatory terminology, I notice that you at least recognise that recreational travel is part of the use of air travel. It actually accounts for about 85% of air travel. Confirm that you would deny people this unbelievable entitlement if you were so able. Presumably you would ban all holiday travel and family reunion travel ? What a dull world and life you must favour !
People who don't accept air travel or any other form of transportation for recreation or business need to stand back and look at the overall quality and practicality of life. I don’t want to return to living, breathing and dying within 10 miles of my birthplace, simply eating potatoes. Perhaps we should return to hunting and gathering ?

"Of course, if pollution continues to increase in major cities the way it is going then we may manage to keep population growth down just by choking people to death instead - Beijing is a delightful place now, as is vast swathes of Indonesia..."Well, I have seen better attempts at humour but I see that you are in agreement that there are issues several orders of magnitude more important to global warming than a pathetically unimportant additional runway in southern England.

"I wonder if Don's 25 mpg car will seem equally as appealing to him in the future as he watches his grandkids quality of life diminish? There are some unbelievably entitled people around in the world... "You appear to be quite happy to jump to conclusions. The car in question is a 26/27 year old Mercedes 124 estate which does about 33 mpg during “normal” use but about 25mpg at 80mph. Given the choice between scrapping this car and replacing it with a newer E Class estate that would return (say) 40 to 45 mpg, which is the more environmentally friendly. BTW, I would love to be able to run a Ford Mondeo (say) like many of our neighbours……..but I just couldn’t afford the repair bills and running costs. So I’m afraid that I am stuck with relatively high capital-cost/low-through-life-cost cars like Mercedes. I also have to put up with a C Class cdi220 saloon that returns a half-decent 65mpg average and a 70mpg+ on a long steady run. Not everything boils down to fuel consumption. Perhaps you could explain more clearly what you were alluding to with your “There are some unbelievably entitled people around in the world...”

To summarise, another runway in southern England is pathetically insignificant in terms of climate change either in itself or in terms of "setting an example" or any other metric.
There are far, far more effective means of reducing greenhouse gas emissions and keeping temperature rise within 1.5 deg C.

George needs to keep things in perspective – again. Turning a Naim amp off each day isn’t going to save mankind. Life doesn’t have to be mundane or miserable for mankind to survive.

One other comment. A few weeks ago I understand the Gov was putting a fair amount of funding into an “ingenuity” fund. Brian Cox and a few others consider we have a few decades in which to find a more sustainable and economic source of power. A bit more enthusiasm in that direction would be more interesting than moaning about another runway.

It appears we have both misread each others posts. My post was in agreement with your view that air travel was important - and I specifically noted that travel to see people was a major reason for this. I didn't put %ages on either as I didn't know them.

I objected to your apparent revelling in using what you wanted and sod the consequences for future generations - and you seemed to write your post to get this sort of reaction. If it was meant to be humour then it also passed me by. It's good to see you are actually self-aware enough to understand that there is a need to change the way we do things, and that keeping something for a long time may actually be more efficient than constant replacement.

My views are not 'hair shirt' either and I am as guilty of waste as anyone, but I do recognise the need to change to using only what is necessary in doing what we choose to do and my whole professional life is aimed at trying to practically achieve this across the whole of the EU at present. This does not exclude luxury but does mean going back to valuing the world's resources. Your 27 y/o Merc is a good example of moving away from the 'throw-away' society.

My comment on 'unbelievably entitled' meant exactly that - there are a significant number of people in the world who believe its theirs to do with as they want and they have no collective responsibility towards future generations. I've already explained why I thought you were behaving that way. I apologise if it's not what you actually believe or the way you behave.

Hi Penarth,

One of the problems of e-mails and blogs is less than careful wording and the lack of body-language etc. I think we agree on more than we disagree. Sometimes it requires a bit of exaggeration and/or piss-taking to get people to wake up to significant issues. And even more effort to really think about such issues or to appreciate the view-point of others, even if we don't agree with these others.

Cheers

Don