I have a fully wired Cat-7 audio network - Cat-7 is always screened - I have it because it runs around with a number of mains cables & for the sake of a few quid it seemed sensible to avoid the possibility of problems.  But there is really no need to have a screened cable in domestic situations.   I doubt you will find it gives any improvement in SQ unless you have an existing noise issue.  

It does seem strange to have a screened Cat-5e without the RJ/E-45 terminals.   If you do change the terminals then please be aware that the Naim ethernet port screen is connected to the mains power safety earth (ground) & that an ethernet network should only have one ground point.  Assuming your switch has screened ports, the ground connection will be carried through to the NAS & its most likely the NAS also has a ground connection to power safety earth.  My Synology is earthed & I use a UTP male/female adaptor to leave that end of the ethernet screen open/floating.   I believe all router/wireless hubs don't have screened ports so no secret grounds in that area.

3rd attempt to reply...will app crash again?

Thanks Mike, so in theory, it may be best to change all connectors except the one at NAS end, so I don't have two points of earth ground by power source?

I appreciate it probably may make no difference at all, but a while back I didn't think a digital cable, or power cable could make a difference either!  For the sake of a few quid I may try it.

...........  or the wireless router end

It might be less frustrating & more error free to buy new Cat-6a

The whole of our wired network is cabled with AudioQuest Cinnamon Cat 7. It sounds much better than bog standard cable. The earth is lifted at the NAS using a plastic connector, per the advice above. 

Jason posted:

I wondered if I should re terminate the cat 5e with metal cased connectors which can provide the shield and Earth continuity to all the metal ports on the NAS, switch and NDS.

 

Sounds like you're contemplating a DIY job here? Not recommended unless you're confident that you know what you're doing. 

ChrisSU posted:

Jason posted:

I wondered if I should re terminate the cat 5e with metal cased connectors which can provide the shield and Earth continuity to all the metal ports on the NAS, switch and NDS.

 

Sounds like you're contemplating a DIY job here? Not recommended unless you're confident that you know what you're doing. 

Hi Chris

I have set up my whole network, run and terminated all cables so far, but not used anything other than 5e and standard crimped connectors.  How hard can it be......;-)

Mike-B posted:

...........  or the wireless router end

It might be less frustrating & more error free to buy new Cat-6a

Mike, please forgive my ignorance here.  Do you suggest this due to the majority of these connectors being designed for the thicker 6a cable and hence making better connections?

If that's the case, I may leave well alone, I won't go to the lengths of replacing all the cable too!!

I never found installing RJ45 plugs that easy to get 100% right,  not difficult to actually fit,  just getting the twist & conductor routing right.  That said I've not done than many & certainly not recently. I understand Cat-6 is more difficult than Cat-5 so you might be OK.    

I have done loads of this stuff, networked the entire house, including runs outside to the garage and beyond, all terminates in a 48 port switch in the loft. If I can do it anyone can.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The whole of our wired network is cabled with AudioQuest Cinnamon Cat 7. It sounds much better than bog standard cable. The earth is lifted at the NAS using a plastic connector, per the advice above. 

I use 30ft of Blue Jeans Cat 6a cable  with floating shield. For me the high end stuff is just too costly for such a long run. There would need to be a substantial jump in SQ for me to even consider it.

Thanks for all your replies.  I've fitted quite a few RJ45 plugs now, but only the standard plastic ones.  I actually find it quite therapeutic. Admittedly it can make your fingers numb after a few plugs when you take the time to straighten out the twisted pairs properly and get them sitting correctly before crimping.  I have a testing device to ensure all connections are good so that takes the guesswork out of it! Just was wondering if the grounding plugs may be worth a try as I have suitable cable for them already.

Was just a thought I decided I might air to see if others considered or even found it worthwhile.

Iconoclast posted:

I use 30ft of Blue Jeans Cat 6a cable  with floating shield. For me the high end stuff is just too costly for such a long run. There would need to be a substantial jump in SQ for me to even consider it.

There is a clue in there Jason,  Blue Jeans make their patch cords with Belden cable.  The Belden 6A screen is called an absorptive shield.  This might be your cable & adding a connected ground might be counter productive.

Mmm, not sure what the design of the QED I have is, but it does have a shield and a separate ground conductor.  I think this is starting to get too technical, so I shall leave alone.  Seemed more simple in theory!!

It is worth bearing in mind for a quality 5e cable in most domestic setups using upto 1Gbps link speed you don't need shields.. The Ethernet pairs are balanced and twisted in the cable. Screens mostly reject non balanced noise, which is noise from imperfections from the twisted pairs, or prevention of a significant external source of noise affecting the twisted pair where there are imperfections. (Sharp bends, pressed cable etc)

I have found all sorts of shielded and unshielded cables can'sound' different through the electromagnetic fields produced.

in the end I have used Cat5e to a female to female RJ45 connector, and then swapped various Cat cable type of many prices for the final 6 feet to the Naim streamer, I actually settled for a non brand shielded 6a cable for the final 6 feet that cost me about five pounds from a well known online auction house as my best sounding cable...

However I have found changing network switch port type of more sonic impact. I use a Cisco 2960 8 port switch for my audio in preference to a little unmanaged Netgear switch I had previously used for audio. Again I got a used one from the online auction site for about 300 pounds.

Simon

Thanks for the info Simon.  Again, there's no reason why a different switch should make a difference to sound quality, but evidently there are differences.  This game never ceases to amaze me when it comes to the variables and what can impact on the result.

Jason, regarding switches, I am fairly confident its down to common mode electrical noise on the Ethernet twisted pairs.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It is worth bearing in mind for a quality 5e cable in most domestic setups using upto 1Gbps link speed you don't need shields.. The Ethernet pairs are balanced and twisted in the cable. Screens mostly reject non balanced noise, which is noise from imperfections from the twisted pairs, or prevention of a significant external source of noise affecting the twisted pair where there are imperfections. (Sharp bends, pressed cable etc)

I have found all sorts of shielded and unshielded cables can'sound' different through the electromagnetic fields produced.

in the end I have used Cat5e to a female to female RJ45 connector, and then swapped various Cat cable type of many prices for the final 6 feet to the Naim streamer, I actually settled for a non brand shielded 6a cable for the final 6 feet that cost me about five pounds from a well known online auction house as my best sounding cable...

However I have found changing network switch port type of more sonic impact. I use a Cisco 2960 8 port switch for my audio in preference to a little unmanaged Netgear switch I had previously used for audio. Again I got a used one from the online auction site for about 300 pounds.

Simon

I'm starting from scratch. Does this make sense?

Blue Jeans 5e from my router to my switch (30' +-), Cisco 2960 switch, then from my switch I run 6a to my nas and then some yet to be determined higher end possibly more expensive cable from my switch to my NAC 272 as long as it has an ungrounded, unearthed, unbounded, rj45 termination at my NAC 272. Right?

Is this the 2960 you own? 

Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 8-Ports 10/100 Managed Switch

Hi blownaway,    paying that kind of money for a managed switch is a bit OTT,  you don't need a managed switch unless you plan to get into network enquiries;  99% of the peeps on the forum use unmanaged switches & they are typically in the £20 - £30 brkt depending on port numbers. 

Simon & I have exchanged notes on this before,  but the little Netgear switch he referred to was I believe an FS series & was an old version a few revisions from current..  Based on some forum testing in other places & my comparative test between an old FS108 & my new GS105,  I believe that the problem was in the SMPS (wall wart),  as flipping between the old & new SMPS units made my GS105 change its sound signature & the same change was detected on the old FS108.  This indicated the problem was in the SMPS. 

I also believe the electrical noise standards applied to SMPS units has changed in recent years & that has reduced the noise associated with SMPS significantly.  Additionally I've since added a few ferrite clamps on the in & out of the my Netgear SMPS & as far as I am concerned, any SMPS noise, if in fact it is present, is not an issue.

Mike-B posted:

Hi blownaway,    paying that kind of money for a managed switch is a bit OTT,  you don't need a managed switch unless you plan to get into network enquiries;  99% of the peeps on the forum use unmanaged switches & they are typically in the £20 - £30 brkt depending on port numbers. 

Simon & I have exchanged notes on this before,  but the little Netgear switch he referred to was I believe an FS series & was an old version a few revisions from current..  Based on some forum testing in other places & my comparative test between an old FS108 & my new GS105,  I believe that the problem was in the SMPS (wall wart),  as flipping between the old & new SMPS units made my GS105 change its sound signature & the same change was detected on the old FS108.  This indicated the problem was in the SMPS. 

I also believe the electrical noise standards applied to SMPS units has changed in recent years & that has reduced the noise associated with SMPS significantly.  Additionally I've since added a few ferrite clamps on the in & out of the my Netgear SMPS & as far as I am concerned, any SMPS noise, if in fact it is present, is not an issue.

Hi Mike-B, OTT perhaps.  I can get a Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 8-Ports 10/100 Managed Switch for $200 US but I also get the

GS105v5

ProSAFE 5-Port Gigabit Switch

for about $35 US.  Hmm. I think the Netgear is worth a go, plus I have the Netgear R6250 (A1600) router.  

Do you add the ferrite clamps on the power cord of your GS105 or on you power cord of you NAS drive (or both).

What about my Ethernet cable ideas, do they make any sense? 

I am no network expert and my knowledge had been gained mainly reading on here and trial and error.

I use a basic Netgear GS105 switch and a BT Hub5 router. Both have SMPS and I have ferrite cores installed on both power chords. My server has a linear power supply but if your server or NAS has a SMPS I would also put ferrite cores on the power lead to this also. You might want to experiment a bit with placement of ferrite cores because they are not universally beneficial. They seem to be most effective on SMPSs and Ethernet cables.

IME the benefits of good quality Ethernet cables are heard the closer they are positioned to the streamer although many on here will disagree with their need entirely. So I have my best Ethernet cables installed between the server and the switch and between the switch and the streamer. The remainder of the network is wired with lower spec. (but still decent) ethernet cables. I use Audioquest Ethernet cables and have found they make a difference especially close to the steamer and have installed ferrite cores on these. I can now visualise the rolling eyes of all those network engineers on here but let's not start a heated debate about Ethernet cables right now. This is merely what I have found to work best in my system with my ears.

One of the biggest gains is from physically and electrically separating the hifi rack (streamer and amps) from network components (server, NAS, switch, router) and keep anything else with SMPSs away from hifi gear. I have hifi and network components on separate racks and physically as far apart as possible. Each rack of components is plugged into different ring mains. All this is to minimise the degree to which the network components and their power supplies 'infect' the delicate electronics of my streamer and pre amp with electrical and radio interference.

My twopennth for what it is worth.

Mike-B posted:

Hi again blownaway  ...........  I have ferrite all over  

But to keep it simple & limited to the GS105 SMPS (wall wart).  I have clamp-on Ferrite on the 3-core cable to the power strip that the SMPS is plugged into.  Plus I have the same size clamp-on ferrite on the 12vDC SMPS cable & this small dia cable is looped through the ferrite 4 times (5 passes) - this adds more impedance & lowers the effective frequency point some.

 

Your ethernet ideas are OK so far I I can tell,  I like Blue Jeans - the right attitude towards snake oil pedlars & their own in-house quality.   I would maybe look at Cat-6 or Cat-6A all over,  but if the long run is a cost issue Cat-5e is just fine - but with the cost saving on the Netgear switch,  you can afford it now 

 

And yes I have ferrite on the Ethernets as well,  like I said ferrite all over ....  I followed Simon-in Suffolk on this one,  plus I noted both Cisco & Ricoh recommend them for their office equipment installs - funny tho' only in Europe & FarEast,  but not US.    I really can't hear any difference with these on or off TBH,  but they are installed & they will stay on the grounds that it might be helping.   My ethernet is Cat-7 (screened) & although the screen is carried through the Netgear switch,  its grounded only at the NDX end & isolated at the NAS & router ports.    I have three ethernet ferrite clamp-on's,    at the NDX, NAS & wireless router ends  

I'm obviously out of my element here, thanks for being so patient with me.  I intend on setting my 272's signal ground switch to "chassis" since I'm plugging the 272 into a grounded outlet dedicated 20 amp circuit.

I thought a read from the comments above that the ethernet connections on the streamer are grounded already and that I shouldn't plug in a grounded (shielded?) ethernet cable into the my 272.  I should put a plastic ungrounded plug at that feeds into the 272.  Did I misunderstand?

I didn't see anything reference to shielded ethernet cable in the US owners manual.....

"2.7.1 Wired Network Connection NAC-N preamplifiers are fitted on their rear panels with a standard RJ45 Ethernet socket. This socket enables them to join home networks via a network router to access internet radio streams, to play audio files stored on UPnP™ servers, to play Spotify® Connect and TIDAL streams, and to play from or broadcast to other Naim streamers on the same network. Note: Ethernet-over-mains hardware may be used and provides a simple and convenient method of wired home network connection. However, depending on mains wiring factors specific to each home environment, the presence of network data on the mains supply may compromise overall system sound quality. If any sound quality compromise is found to be unacceptable, dedicated network cabling should be installed as the preferred option, or alternatively wireless networking can be employed."

Perhaps I don't understand what the difference is between screened, shielded, ect.

The only reason I mention cat 5 is that its available in a unshielded version through Blue Jeans.  If I can use shielded ethernet then Cat 6a would be great, I just didn't want to make any termination changes myself. 

Mike-B posted:

.........  no probs, patience is for free

Signal ground to "chassis" on the 272 has nothing to do with ethernet ground.

Shield & screen means the same with ethernet, its the alloy foil around each of the twisted pairs & overall the bunch with foil & braid.  

Screened ethernet cable is rarely mentioned as such as its really not required in normal domestic situations.

I believe Blue Jeans Cat-6A screened ethernet cable has an absorbent screen - meaning its not electrically connected thru the RJ45 plugs.  You might check that with them, phone or e-mail.  If that is so then you have no worries abut screen grounding, it can be used everywhere.

The other way is to have a screened ethernet section (or fancy boutique cable)  between 272 & Switch & a non-screened (Cat-6 or Cat-5e) to the NAS & router.

Hmm that helps, I called Blue Jeans and they said like you that the Cat-6A has an absorbent screen/shield and not grounded on either end and considered unshielded (uses plastic plugs).  The Cat 6 doesn't have the absorbent screen (I think I got that right, don't quote me) and it too is considered unshielded cable. He recommended the Cat-6a when you are running multiple runs (I assume why the absorbent screen).

So as you mention in the case of Blue Jean cable Cat 6 & 6a can be used anywhere in my little set up .

My option is if I want to install a fancy boutique cable from my 272 and the switch.  If I do this then I should make sure that it terminates at the 272 with the "plastic" plug so it will neutralize any ground. Right?

Here is the description of the Blue Jeans cable...

 Cat 5e Patch Cords--Belden 1700A
Bonded pairs; high-performance Cat 5e, CM rated for installation
Every cable individually tested, with report

Cat 6 Patch Cords--BJC C6P
Bonded pairs, Cat 6, 250 MHz; Rated CMR for installation
Every cable individually tested, with report

Cat 6a Patch Cords--BJC C6AP
Bonded Pairs, Cat 6a, 500 MHz; Rated CMR for installation
Every cable individually tested, with report

Cat 5e Patch Cords--Belden 1583A
Non-bonded, "economy" version, CMR rated
Every cable individually tested, with report