Shielded Ethernet.....

blownaway posted

Blue Jeans 5e from my router to my switch (30' +-), Cisco 2960 switch, then from my switch I run 6a to my nas and then some yet to be determined higher end possibly more expensive cable from my switch to my NAC 272 as long as it has an ungrounded, unearthed, unbounded, rj45 termination at my NAC 272. Right?

 Yes this sounds fine. You don't describe your router and its wifi.. If you have problem with your iPad with things disappearing from the Naim app you can use a cheap little Apple airport express plugged into the switch as an access point and set a new SSID just for streaming control points like the Naim app

Simon

blownaway posted:

Is this the 2960 you own? 

Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 8-Ports 10/100 Managed Switch

 

Yes that is fine, and that variant includes a quality inbuilt powersupply. You don't need many of the the functions of this switch although it's IGMP snooping is very capable and in my opinion more importantly if your router is not up on IGMP you can configure the Switch to act as a IGMP querier .. So that it spoofs the multicast group management of an IGMP enabled router.. this is what I do, and I NEVER have missing UPnP servers, streamer's etc from my Naim app, and streaming just works.. All the time every time.. No messing or frigging about with static IP addresses, cheap multicast broadcast only  switches  and the like.   and my IGMP snooping is perfect and I am comfortable I am not filling my wifi and LAN with unnecessary multicast broadcast garbage.

Edit:  ok this sounds like technical mumbo jumbo but if you have a network IT friend they will/should know this and can configure the switch for you.. Examples are on the Cisco website.. 

Simon

blownaway posted:

My option is if I want to install a fancy boutique cable from my 272 and the switch.  If I do this then I should make sure that it terminates at the 272 with the "plastic" plug so it will neutralize any ground. Right?Its OK to install a fully screened cable metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug at the 272.  Its screen will connect out to the switch & will be floating at that point, provided you have unscreened Cat-5e or Cat-6 out to the NAS

 

Its OK to install a fully screened cable with metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug at the 272.  Its screen will connect out to the switch but will be floating (open) at that point - provided you have unscreened Cat-5e or Cat-6 out to the NAS

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

blownaway posted:

Is this the 2960 you own? 

Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 8-Ports 10/100 Managed Switch

 

Yes that is fine, and that variant includes a quality inbuilt powersupply. You don't need many of the the functions of this switch although it's IGMP snooping is very capable and in my opinion more importantly if your router is not up on IGMP you can configure the Switch to act as a IGMP querier .. So that it spoofs the multicast group management of an IGMP enabled router.. this is what I do, and I NEVER have missing UPnP servers, streamer's etc from my Naim app, and streaming just works.. All the time every time.. No messing or frigging about with static IP addresses, cheap multicast broadcast only  switches  and the like.   and my IGMP snooping is perfect and I am comfortable I am not filling my wifi and LAN with unnecessary multicast broadcast garbage.

Edit:  ok this sounds like technical mumbo jumbo but if you have a network IT friend they will/should know this and can configure the switch for you.. Examples are on the Cisco website.. 

Simon

 

Technical mumbo jumbo alright.  Sounds like a system that works well for you through this managed Cisco switch. thxs

Mike-B posted:

blownaway posted:

My option is if I want to install a fancy boutique cable from my 272 and the switch.  If I do this then I should make sure that it terminates at the 272 with the "plastic" plug so it will neutralize any ground. Right?Its OK to install a fully screened cable metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug at the 272.  Its screen will connect out to the switch & will be floating at that point, provided you have unscreened Cat-5e or Cat-6 out to the NAS

 

Its OK to install a fully screened cable with metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug at the 272.  Its screen will connect out to the switch but will be floating (open) at that point - provided you have unscreened Cat-5e or Cat-6 out to the NAS

Which of the 2 Cat 5e from Blue Jeans will work in your example above?  They have 2 

Cat 5e Patch Cords--Belden 1583A
Non-bonded, "economy" version, CMR rated
Every cable individually tested, with report

Cat 5e Patch Cords--Belden 1700A
Bonded pairs; high-performance Cat 5e, CM rated for installation
Every cable individually tested, with report

So to sum up I can use unscreened Blue Jeans Cat 5e or Cat 6 for

Router to switch

Switch to Nas

Then I can use Cat 5e, Cat 6 (blue jeans), Cat 7 (audioquest for example) with or without a metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug that goes out of my switch to my 272.

Right?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

blownaway posted

Blue Jeans 5e from my router to my switch (30' +-), Cisco 2960 switch, then from my switch I run 6a to my nas and then some yet to be determined higher end possibly more expensive cable from my switch to my NAC 272 as long as it has an ungrounded, unearthed, unbounded, rj45 termination at my NAC 272. Right?

 Yes this sounds fine. You don't describe your router and its wifi.. If you have problem with your iPad with things disappearing from the Naim app you can use a cheap little Apple airport express plugged into the switch as an access point and set a new SSID just for streaming control points like the Naim app

Simon

 

I have a Netgear R6250 (ac1600) that is a dual band gigabit router. I don't have a high data plan. My wifi is good in the house. My hi-fi is in the basement of my home and the router is on the main floor.  My desktop computer in the basement gets a good signal with a netgear USB wireless adaptor.

In my opinion there is no reason to plumb for a 10/100 switch anymore, its just going to hold you back if you want to copy files around the network, this becomes especially annoying for backups etc, which you are being held back by a decade old switch.

Get a gigabit switch, they are cheap (or expensive) and will be a much better experience for anyone.

I blagged my switch for peanuts. Because its sorta business stylee the fans are noisy and right above us in the loft so I pulled them out, drilled a 12 cm hole in top and wired in a 12 cm fan running slower, hasn't missed a beat touch wood.

But honestly if you say rip music on a PC and want to upload to a nas, a 10/100 will really show up as super slow compared to even a cheap gigabit switch.

Blownaway, indeed, however the quality of the switch with respect to noise on the Ethernet line will have a bearing in my experience.. I found less glare on some setup with a little 2960 compared to a little Netgear.. your mileage may vary..

I also think network hygiene is important and can have an effect, possibly as much if not more so than with cables.. A lot of broadcast traffic will add load to the streamer and I believe will affect SQ.. The best way of dealing is to keep your network wired and as small as possible and as simple as you can, try and use IGMP snooping if you can (hence the bit about the querier). Preferably use  either Apple Bonjour or UPnP if possible but not both unless you need to. You may be pleasantly surprised at the SQ improvement if you use Ethernet... If you see all your lights on your switch are flashing a lot together that indicates high broadcast traffic. Occasional flashing all together is normal.

But anyway get up and started, and enjoy your music and then you can tweak.. Of course anyone can buy cables and is easy and fun.. Network hygiene not so easy and fun... If you get disappearing items on your network, or DHCP issues later on then I suspect  it will be time to look at hygiene..

enjoy

Simon

blownaway posted:

So to sum up I can use unscreened Blue Jeans Cat 5e or Cat 6 for

Router to switch

Switch to Nas

Then I can use Cat 5e, Cat 6 (blue jeans), any CAT-6A,  Cat 7 (audioquest for example) with or without a metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug that goes out of my switch to my 272.

Right?

Right  !!!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Blownaway, indeed, however the quality of the switch with respect to noise on the Ethernet line will have a bearing in my experience.. I found less glare on some setup with a little 2960 compared to a little Netgear.. your mileage may vary..

I also think network hygiene is important and can have an effect, possibly as much if not more so than with cables.. A lot of broadcast traffic will add load to the streamer and I believe will affect SQ.. The best way of dealing is to keep your network wired and as small as possible and as simple as you can, try and use IGMP snooping if you can (hence the bit about the querier). Preferably use  either Apple Bonjour or UPnP if possible but not both unless you need to. You may be pleasantly surprised at the SQ improvement if you use Ethernet... If you see all your lights on your switch are flashing a lot together that indicates high broadcast traffic. Occasional flashing all together is normal.

But anyway get up and started, and enjoy your music and then you can tweak.. Of course anyone can buy cables and is easy and fun.. Network hygiene not so easy and fun... If you get disappearing items on your network, or DHCP issues later on then I suspect  it will be time to look at hygiene..

enjoy

Simon

Sage advice Simon. I'll bone up on IGMP snooping more, great idea.

Mike-B posted:

blownaway posted:

So to sum up I can use unscreened Blue Jeans Cat 5e or Cat 6 for

Router to switch

Switch to Nas

Then I can use Cat 5e, Cat 6 (blue jeans), any CAT-6A,  Cat 7 (audioquest for example) with or without a metal shrouded RJ/E-45 plug that goes out of my switch to my 272.

Right?

Right  !!!

That's awesome. I couldn't have done it without you!

nigelb posted:

I am no network expert and my knowledge had been gained mainly reading on here and trial and error.

I use a basic Netgear GS105 switch and a BT Hub5 router. Both have SMPS and I have ferrite cores installed on both power chords. My server has a linear power supply but if your server or NAS has a SMPS I would also put ferrite cores on the power lead to this also. You might want to experiment a bit with placement of ferrite cores because they are not universally beneficial. They seem to be most effective on SMPSs and Ethernet cables.

IME the benefits of good quality Ethernet cables are heard the closer they are positioned to the streamer although many on here will disagree with their need entirely. So I have my best Ethernet cables installed between the server and the switch and between the switch and the streamer. The remainder of the network is wired with lower spec. (but still decent) ethernet cables. I use Audioquest Ethernet cables and have found they make a difference especially close to the steamer and have installed ferrite cores on these. I can now visualise the rolling eyes of all those network engineers on here but let's not start a heated debate about Ethernet cables right now. This is merely what I have found to work best in my system with my ears.

One of the biggest gains is from physically and electrically separating the hifi rack (streamer and amps) from network components (server, NAS, switch, router) and keep anything else with SMPSs away from hifi gear. I have hifi and network components on separate racks and physically as far apart as possible. Each rack of components is plugged into different ring mains. All this is to minimise the degree to which the network components and their power supplies 'infect' the delicate electronics of my streamer and pre amp with electrical and radio interference.

My twopennth for what it is worth.

 

Hi Nigelb, great ideas. Thank-you.  

Does it matter where your switch is located?  For example you could have your switch next to your NAS or you could have your switch closer to your hi-fi rack.  Im inclined the have the switch closer to my hi-fi to keep the cost of expensive ethernet cable to a minimum.

Assuming I'm going with a NAS and switch with SMPS's, is it important that the outlet/s used to power these are grounded?  Is an outlet on a separate circuit recommended? 

Can I plug both the NAS and the switch into the same outlet (different plug same outlet)?  This may not be possible with the SMPS's. US outlets have 2 places to plug stuff into.

My plan is to have my NAS & switch a good 15' from my Hi-Fi separated by wall/s.  

I like to keep all components that use SMPSs away from hifi due to the noise these supplies can introduce. So I would have my switch with my NAS (I have a Unitiserve  for server duties) and away from the hifi. If your switch or NAS has a linear power supply this separation matters less but I am guessing yours will have SMPSs as most do.

BTW I am not condoning expensive Ethernet cables, just good quality ones. I use Audioqust vodka between Server and switch and between switch and streamer and Audioquest Cinnamon everywhere else. Vodka is expensive but I got sent one longish length at the cost of cinnamon due to unavailability of the latter. Otherwise I would not pay for a long length of Vodka.

All UK outlets have an earth but I am not sure if the wall warts of the SMPS actually are earthed if I understand your query. Others on here will know better than I.

I would try and plug your SMPS fed components into a different ring main (or spur - not sure how US domestic mains are arranged) to that of your hifi components in an effort to separate out those pesky SMPS from the delicate electronics in your hifi. I don't see why plugging your NAS and switch in the same oulet would cause a problem if convenient to do so. Others may have had issues with this but I haven't.

Your plan for the physical separation of NAS/Switch from Hifi looks good to me.

I use the same cables as Cymbosis streaming expert, good enough for him, good enough for me.

And which cables might those be?

I use a cat6 cable with a metal cased connector only on the ND5 side.  I removed the metal case on the switch side.

djh1697 posted:

I use the same cables as Cymbosis streaming expert, good enough for him, good enough for me.

What cable is that ?