UQ2 Streaming issues

IGMP is a network protocol that controls multicast data between routers. Until recently really used only in anger in commercial private networks, but now many ISPs use multicast and its IGMP for IPTV.(streamed live TV over the Internet)

There are several different flavours of IGMP and interoperability with many consumer devices appears not great at present.

I would leave the IGMP proxy setting as advised by your ISP... That really is all about your ISP cloud router and your home router and how they talk to each other..

The parameter that can affect us most with home audio streaming is IGMP snooping. This is is where the switch or router switch ports listen and learn from the IGMP data being set which ports should belong to certain multicast groups. If there is something wrong with software interoperability then the switch won't know that the port belongs to a multicast group, and the multicast data will not be sent through the switch port.

Now in audio streaming, Apple and UPnP use multicast data to identify groups of devices that are participating in the audio streaming process. So if there is an issue then devices appear to disappear from Apple or UPnP control points or server... Sound familiar?

So the workaround is to disable IGMP snooping or use a cheap Unmanaged switch to connect all devices... This simply blindly broadcasts multicast (discovery) data to all devices regardless whether they want it or not.. But at least they shpuld always  get it. Some wifi routers struggle with multicast .. Though less common now, but if this is  problem.. IE your iPad looses visibility of your streamer after a while.. despite it being on snooping disabled or simple unmanaged switch, then plugging a little Apple Airport Express to the switch for the wifi should help..

From what I hear the latest BT Homehubs have a more robust version of IGMP and snooping (for BT TV I suspect) and apparently appears to work well with Naim  though I can't confirm this .. I would be wary of some consumer non ISP provided routers in this regard..

Simon

Coming to this late. Lots of technical stuff here - I would be highly wary of changing some of these settings as you may cause more problems than you solve, unless you understand it quite well.

It doesn't take much to upset a router. The problem could be caused by any number of things quite unrelated to the hi fi. Best to take the router out of the tiresome task of managing the music data from the NAS to the streamer and then you can see what's what. Buy a cheap switch (<£20 Netgear) and put the NAS and UQ2 into it via ethernet, and then run another ethernet cable from the switch to the router. That may well solve the problem and no need to dig around in the settings. 

Occam's Razor applies.

Interesting and really helpful as I am no techie despite being able to set up and manage my own network - I have no knowledge of some of the more technical aspects.

Note however that the router I use is my own and not supplied by my ISP - I have disabled the broadcast function of that particular device and use it in modem only mode connected to my own router so the router settings are the factory ones apart from my own LAN stuff of course.

Sounds like part of the issue may be good old Apple and, as I mentioned, the router I am using is a little hit and miss at the best of times and was due to be replaced,  Am I likely to experience less compatibility issues if I were to use an Apple router? Sorry if that's deviating from the Naim question ever so slightly but I am sure there will be people in the same boat as me who may have had experience of using them.

On the contrary.

I can steongly recommend setting an all-Apple network with either an Airport Extreme or a Time Capsule, defining your home wireless and wired networks. Especially if all tour gear in Apple based.

This is the solution I use at home:

Commercial modem/router >>> Time Capsule (via Ethenet cable) 

Time Capsule >>> Cisco Switch (via Ethernet cable)

Cisco Switch has various network gear connected to it: NAIM streamers (I use 4 in total), NAS, UnitiServe SSD - all connections via Ethernet CAT6 and / or Chord C-Stream.

You can of course bypass the Cisco Switch and plug all your gear into the back of the Time Capsule (that was not an option for me any longer due to the extent of the LAN network I have).

Sounds pretty much like the setup I had in mind Adam despite being stuck with the daft modem I have to use from my ISP but that's a given.

Can I ask how you have found the reliability/range and general performance of your Naim gear with that router setup?  I had a first generation TC a few years ago when I ran a SONOS setup but given the lack of UPnP support from the TC I moved to a full NAS/Media server a couple of years ago.  That TC was great for about a year bit then regularly had more flashing lights than an amusement arcade.

We all get daft modems from our ISPs  Hence the use of Apple gear. Make sure you connect all your gear to the Apple router only.

Stability - all NAIM network is rock solid. Do bear in mind I also use UnitiServe SSD, which administers music to my streamers. But in principle your UnitiQute will work well 'pulling' music from your NAS. Either method is stable.

The Apple router stuff is ok, but a little long in the tooth and limiting now, I have recently  used a time capsule router. Just ensure you disable the IGMP snooping on the Apple device settings and it does then work with Naim and UPnP media streaming.. Or it did for me.

The issue for Apple routers is they currently don't support configurable QoS. (Although this is far from being unique to Apple) This can be an issue if you have other internet users, say streaming YouTube and Netflix and you are wanting to stream lossless like Tidal at the same time to your Naim... The Apple device won't let you prioritise your Naim streamer device... but this is a seperate matter, and if you a high bandwidth broadband connection it becomes less of an issue.

Simon

Ok that's useful.  I again updated the router firmware late last night as it prompted me to do so (I wonder whether that was actually the issue) and so far so good but I will be using it extensively today so we'll see.

I am very tempted to take the Apple option and be done with it.  Just not sure if it's easy/how to disable IGMP Snooping?  Google doesn't seem to be helping much.

This has been really helpful so thank you all again - really appreciate it.

Paulq posted:

I am very tempted to take the Apple option and be done with it.  Just not sure if it's easy/how to disable IGMP Snooping?

 

Just set the Time Capsule / Airport Extreme / Airport Express in a default way.

That's how mine is set up and all works well.

There's absolutely no need to go out and buy a load of Apple branded stuff to stream from a Synology NAS to a UQ2.  Before shelling out hard cash pick up the phone to the very helpful Naim technical support guys. That's what they're there for and that's part of the package when buying Naim gear.  If they suggest you should go and burst your wallet on other gear, fine.

Fingers crossed but everything 'appears' to be working as it should since the router firmware upgrade a few days ago.

Thanks for all the help.

I'm also having some issues and I'd appreciate some help.  I have a UQ (with the hi res boards added) and lately have had problems with my music stopping while streaming.  I stream from ALAC on my apple computer upstairs using Playback to stream from iTunes.  Not sure if maybe my wifi is being interfered with or something else.  I also find that I need to turn my UQ off then on again about 50% of the time just to start playing music for the first time.

Listening to an album tonight it has stopped and restarted about 20 times.

Hi Kenrose

WiFi streaming (as opposed to using an ethernet cable) canbe temperamental. Especially when starting to play back high resolution audio.

My suggestion is that you:

1. Lay down a temporary ethernet cable (Cat5e is sufficient) and test the stability. If OK then we know where the issue is.

2. If you still experience breaks in the streaming, please restore all your gear to it's default factory settings and configure as desceibed in this thread.

Good luck

Adam

WiFi: the transport of last resort.

Update and some help needed here guys (please).  I finally deduced that the router I was using appeared to be the problem as there were ultimately dropouts with other services too.  After much deliberation I took what I thought was the simple option and bought an Apple Time Capsule which is handling the network side of things.  My setup is now as follows:

Virgin Superhub (Modem only mode) -> Apple Time capsule with UQ2 and Synology NAS Ethernet wired into the back of it.  Out of the 3rd ethernet port on the Apple time Capsule is an unmanaged network switch supporting 2 further ethernet connections into Sky HD box and TV. All good there.

The NAS can be seen and accessed on the network as connected and I can access the folders thereon through either iMac or MacBook.  The UQ2 can be seen as on the network and the device itself is showing as 'connected'.

The issue is that the UQ2 is searching for UPnP servers and saying 'No server'.  Several restarts and still getting the same message....

All other wireless devices on the network working perfectly.

Help.....please! 

Can you try connecting the UQ2 and NAS via the switch instead of your TV stuff? Then do a full restart of everything on your network and see if that helps.

Personally I would try putting the UQ2 and NAS into the unmanaged switch, and the Sky box and TV into the Apple box. Basically, the less chatter between the UQ2 and NAS, the better. It should be easy to try that anyway.

If that doesn't work you may have bigger problems. My next step would be to make sure all the firmware in the network is up to date. If no change, I'd revert it all back to factory settings and start again. If still no change, I'd call a network engineer.

What I wouldn't do is start messing with the software equivalent of sticking plaster such as fixed IP addresses and Bonjour settings.

Plug your switch into the Apple TimeCapsule. Then NAS and UQ into the switch.

Disconnect everything else from the switch for now.

If the above works and is stable start adding additional equipment - I would not plug your TV and other devices into a switch, but directly into a time capsule.

I agree that connecting the UQ2 and NAS to the switch is a good move; it may not answer the problem but it is a better configuration, and certainly won't make matters worse or more complicated to solve.

As you seem to be Apple oriented, I assume you're using Naim's iOS app.

Does this 'see' the UQ2 or does it just stick at "Finding Rooms"
If it finds the UQ2 OK, when you tap "UPnP" does it find the Diskstation media server?

It's also worth forcing a 'stop' on the Naim app and restarting that; it may have old network credentials that are still cached in memory.

Thanks both - afraid none of the above worked and the UQ2 still cannot see the NAS.  What's more odd is that even though I can 'see' the NAS as a removable drive on my iMac it doesn't display as a connected device when I do a network scan.  I therefore haven't got an IP address for it which is utterly bizarre.

I suspect that there is some sort of conflict going on between the ATC and the NAS but I am puzzled as to what.  I haven't started assigning manual IP addresses and don't intend to really as it just shouldn't be this hard should it?  Whilst I am no expert I know sufficient and have set up my own networks for years without too many issues until of late.

Huge posted:

I agree that connecting the UQ2 and NAS to the switch is a good move; it may not answer the problem but it is a better configuration, and certainly won't make matters worse or more complicated to solve.

As you seem to be Apple oriented, I assume you're using Naim's iOS app.

Does this 'see' the UQ2 or does it just stick at "Finding Rooms"
If it finds the UQ2 OK, when you tap "UPnP" does it find the Diskstation media server?

It's also worth forcing a 'stop' on the Naim app and restarting that; it may have old network credentials that are still cached in memory.

It finds the room ergo can see the UQ however it's the UPnP server that it can't see so the issue clearly is that the NAS isn't on the network from a UPnP perspective but yet I can see and access it as an external drive.  I don't understand how this can be - there's no IP address assigned to it.

PS:  you are correct in that I use the iOS app

Paulq posted:

Huge posted:

I agree that connecting the UQ2 and NAS to the switch is a good move; it may not answer the problem but it is a better configuration, and certainly won't make matters worse or more complicated to solve.

As you seem to be Apple oriented, I assume you're using Naim's iOS app.

Does this 'see' the UQ2 or does it just stick at "Finding Rooms"
If it finds the UQ2 OK, when you tap "UPnP" does it find the Diskstation media server?

It's also worth forcing a 'stop' on the Naim app and restarting that; it may have old network credentials that are still cached in memory.

It finds the room ergo can see the UQ however it's the UPnP server that it can't see so the issue clearly is that the NAS isn't on the network from a UPnP perspective but yet I can see and access it as an external drive.  I don't understand how this can be - there's no IP address assigned to it.

PS:  you are correct in that I use the iOS app

Are you absolutely sure there's no IP address for the Synology NAS?  That's most odd, if that were the case no device on the network would be able to access it including your computer.  Have you checked to make sure the Apple network protocols are enabled for the Synology.  There's a config setting to make it visible to the mac as a connected device (I'm a Windows user so I can't remember the name).  If this isn't enabled it will be on the network and have an IP address (from DHCP) but you won't have full visibility from the Mac networking.

Have you tried a forced reset on the iOS app?
You could try uninstalling and reinstalling the iOS app.

I know - it's nuts but there's no IP address so I can't access it but can see it - absolutely nuts.  The NAS isn't new and has worked with the mac for years so whatever setting is used then it must have been enabled.

By taking it one thing at a time the variable that has changed things is the Apple Time Capsule - it must be as the NAS 'worked' before (with dropouts) but the router I used assigned IP addresses flawlessly dynamically, What I can see is that the ATC appears to assign private ip addresses that start with '10' rather than '192' which in itself isn't a problem except for the fact that I can't see them!

I am going to reset the ATC and have another go.  If that doesn't work I'll reinstall the old router and, assuming everything works again , albeit with dropouts, then obviously I know that 'something' with the ATC is the issue.  Goodness knows what though.

Paulq posted:

I know - it's nuts but there's no IP address so I can't access it but can see it - absolutely nuts.  The NAS isn't new and has worked with the mac for years so whatever setting is used then it must have been enabled.

By taking it one thing at a time the variable that has changed things is the Apple Time Capsule - it must be as the NAS 'worked' before (with dropouts) but the router I used assigned IP addresses flawlessly dynamically, What I can see is that the ATC appears to assign private ip addresses that start with '10' rather than '192' which in itself isn't a problem except for the fact that I can't see them!

I am going to reset the ATC and have another go.  If that doesn't work I'll reinstall the old router and, assuming everything works again , albeit with dropouts, then obviously I know that 'something' with the ATC is the issue.  Goodness knows what though.

There's loads of info on the net about difficulties with ATC and DHCP.  You need to ensure that only one DHCP server is active - probably the Virgin Superhub, otherwise you may have to tweak the DHCP settings of the ATC.

As you've changed to to the ATC being the primary DHCP server, have you left everything powered down for 15 min to clear out all the old DHCP settings?

Except that the Virgin Superhub isn't handling DCHP as it's acting as a modem only....all the DCHP stuff is handled by the ATC. (Unless I am missing something....)