SuperLumia Link Wires

I am still using the same cables as you. Well, not your cables obviously!

I hope some link cables will be offered at some stage. I'm sure the money making potential won't be lost  on Naim.

With my SL speaker cables I am using Vertere jump leads to link my biwire speaker posts. Vertere do a few, I am using the cheapest (Pulse X Mini I think) at around £150 per set. They work well with the SL speaker cables and my understanding is there is good reason for this - say no more.

As Naim don't offer jump leads (yet), I assume there is no problem mentioning another brand - let's see.

A lot of the cost comes from the plugs and the fitting of them. Be interesting to see just how painful the cost will be if they do decide to produce these.

Roger, I was using NACA5 jump leads when I had NACA5 but went back to the stock leads with the SuperLumina speaker cables. 

I now have SL leads for my SL2s. Of course, with SL2s the cables from the crossovers are A5. The whole thing works very well, so one must conclude that SL and A5 are a decent match. That said, as everyone seems to be saying that SL and Vertere are closely linked (they certainly look very similar) these might be the way to go. 

remember, even if SL links existed, the short wires from the inside of the binding post to the crossover is something else entirely (unless it is a combinded binding interface and crossover board). Although I recently swapped out the brass links on my speakers for a dedicated link to match the cable and was surprised at the difference, I am less inclined to think this is because matching 12cm of cable is important and more inclined to think brass links are very bad.

With that in mind, A5 links at the end of SL seems perfectly reasonable to me.

As regards 802 Diamonds and jumper leads I use NACA5 as for my speaker cables which I found as an improvement over the stock B&W jumpers.

When I had a home loan of SL speaker cables I did revert to the B&W jumpers for a while and did notice a slight difference but not enough to make a definitive decision at that stage.  If ever I buy SL speaker cables I would definitely try it again.

So interesting what Steve says.

Richard 

Roger,

When I home demoed the SL speaker cables I was using A5 links, as I was using A5 speaker cables at the time. Due to the improvement the SL speaker cables brought over the A5 speaker cables, I in no way wanted to compromise this by sicking with the A5 links. That is why I made the modest (compared to the SL speaker leads) purchase of the Vertere links.

Unfortunately I didn't make a direct comparison between the Vertere and A5 links. There has however been a continuous improvement since installing the SL cables and Vetere links. As the SLs are exdemo, I would put much of this improvement down to the links settling in. My gut feel is that it is better to match the speaker cables to the link wires than try to match the link wires to the internal speaker wires. I say match due to the 'similarity' of SL and Vertere cables.

You might see if you can borrow some Vertere links (run in if possible) to see if they offer an improvement over your B&W supplied link wire. I think you could well get a pleasant surprise.

Thanks Nigel.  Which version of the Vertere link did you buy?  A quick check on the phone to one of the listed dealers reveals 3 levels - from about £150,  £450 and one at around £1,000 !   Not sure how they are named - you would know more about this.

As I said in my first post I think it was the Pulse X Mini links. They were definitely the cheapest in the range at £150 or £165 per set.

My dealer was very helpful. I know we are not supposed to mention dealers on here but listen out for drums emanating from the direction of St Albans. If that is too cryptic then you can e-mail me and I can advise.

FangfossFlyer posted:

As regards 802 Diamonds and jumper leads I use NACA5 as for my speaker cables which I found as an improvement over the stock B&W jumpers.

When I had a home loan of SL speaker cables I did revert to the B&W jumpers for a while and did notice a slight difference but not enough to make a definitive decision at that stage.  If ever I buy SL speaker cables I would definitely try it again.

So interesting what Steve says.

Richard 

It was my dealer who suggested I try putting the original jumpers back in place of the NACA5 and they do sound better. It makes sense I suppose that there are only two types of cable rather than three. I would like to try some SL jumpers though.

Steve J posted:

FangfossFlyer posted:

As regards 802 Diamonds and jumper leads I use NACA5 as for my speaker cables which I found as an improvement over the stock B&W jumpers.

When I had a home loan of SL speaker cables I did revert to the B&W jumpers for a while and did notice a slight difference but not enough to make a definitive decision at that stage.  If ever I buy SL speaker cables I would definitely try it again.

So interesting what Steve says.

Richard 

It was my dealer who suggested I try putting the original jumpers back in place of the NACA5 and they do sound better. It makes sense I suppose that there are only two types of cable rather than three. I would like to try some SL jumpers though.

Agreed better to have two types of cable after the power amp rather than three. My point is that I feel it is better to match speaker and link cables rather than try to match speaker and internal speaker cables. (Of course with Naim speakers you can match all three). My only evidence for this is the significant uplift in performance from replacing the stock links on my speakers (which are matched with the internal speaker wiring) with NACA5 links which of course were perfectly matched to the NACA5 speaker cable. Many others have discovered an improvement when replacing standard supplied links with NACA5 links when using NACA5 speaker cables again implying the importance of matching speaker cables and links. This is the main reason I moved to Vertere links when I got the SL speaker cables.

Now I know Vertere links are not exactly the same as SL speaker cables but there is good reason to believe they are well matched and in the absence of SL links this is the closest we can get. My understanding is that Naim have so far decided it is too costly to produce SL speaker links.

I wasn't passing comment on your choice of Vertere links Nigel, I haven't heard what they what they can do, more my experience with replacing the NACA5 speaker cables with the SL and reverting back to the stock jumpers. I found the NACA5 jumpers worked well with the NACA5 cables but the stock links were better with the SL.

Understood Steve. I was only pointing out my preference to match speaker and link cables.

I wonder if there is a way of removing the crossovers and connecting the wires internally to one set of posts on B&Ws?  That would be far cheaper than links. When I had my PMCs I used links and was always dubious about the quality of the contacts between the links and the screw down terminals. 

I bet a very small percentage of users of biwire speakers actually biwire, and only a slightly greater proportion bother to replace the links with jumpers. That would mean that most people don't hear the speakers working as well as they might. All in all, biwire speaker terminals are largely a waste of space. Why do manafacturers insist on sticking the damn things on? Fashion? To look super technical and thus desirable? Goodness knows. I'm just pleased my speakers are single wired. Plug in the SL cables and away you go. 

I think PMC and B&W produce them this way so people have the choice to biamp or biwire. I agree I personally would prefer single wired but biamping with two 300s was successful in the past.

I'm sure that's the case. But say only 10% of people use the facility, performance is reduced for the other 90%. Anyway, there's seemingly not a lot we can do about them. 

I find it really depends on the amp and speaker matching. Saying biwiring is a waste of time is a bit of a broad brush. 

And biamping can definitely have benefits for driving challenging speakers.  A pair of 250s might have better results with some speakers than a single 300 at the same cost. You need multiple binding posts to achieve that so I reject the notion that bi-wire posts are purely the fashion or for commercial appeal.

Naim don't need them because their speakers are fairly easy to drive.

HH your estimation of how few people bi-wire doesn't ring true to me. At the mid to lower end of the market bi-wiring has some benefits and is very common. 

I spent over 5 years working in hifi retail in the 90s and absolutely every system or pair of speakers sold that benefited from bi-wiring we sold with bi-wire cables. Only a few things like Naim and Quad didn't respond to it. In my experience it was realistically more like 90% did bi-wire and 10% (usually at a higher end) didn't. Even that was not always the case as passive Linn speakers with a Linn amp sounded rubbish single wired.

Perhaps my view is tainted by having used Naim for so long, and that biwiring is more prevalent. I tend to the view though that biwire is unnecessary. When I asked the PMC rep why they did it, the answer was 'fashion'. 

I don't doubt they said this but they may have meant something different. PMC often biamp their speakers with Bryston at trade shows.

As for bi-wire binding posts, this doesn't concern me if done right. With the PMC these were directly attached to the crossover board.

You have reminded of one thing though. Off topic but I wish more manufacturers did active versions of their speakers. I would love to see what Twenty.23s do active but we'll never know.

Tuning in for understanding.

Terminology, are link wires and jumper cables interchangeable?

Are they solely used for Bi amping and Bi wiring?

Does Naim frown on the latter?

Is the OP forced to use the wire links with the Diamond 802's?

Allante93 posted:

Tuning in for understanding.

Terminology, are link wires and jumper cables interchangeable?

Jumper cables are used in lieu of link wires

Are they solely used for Bi amping and Bi wiring?

They are removed for either of these

Does Naim frown on the latter?

Yes

Is the OP forced to use the wire links with the Diamond 802's?

No

You beat me to Zen, With the Briks, I use (Nac A-4/Linn K-20) to the dreaded crossover, then from there, Linn uses the same cable directly to the drivers.

And if I do graduate to the SL Cable, just plug directly to the Drivers !

Hungryhalibut posted:

Allante93 posted:

Tuning in for understanding.

Terminology, are link wires and jumper cables interchangeable?

Jumper cables are used in lieu of link wires

Are they solely used for Bi amping and Bi wiring?

They are removed for either of these

Does Naim frown on the latter?

Yes

Is the OP forced to use the wire links with the Diamond 802's?

No

 

Thanks HH!