SuperLumia Link Wires

Thanks Guy's I think I got it now! 

The School of Naim:

“”Should I bi-wire my speakers? 

Almost certainly not. 

Naim amplifiers and speakers are designed to work without bi-wring and will sound better when single wired.  Bi-wiring Naim amplifiers may also invalidate your warranty.

In some non-Naim speakers the crossover is designed in a way which means that bi-wiring brings an improvement which is why some speakers sound better when bi-wired.  Naim amplifiers, however, work best when single wired and generally - although not exclusively - work best with speakers designed for single wiring.””

The School of B & W 

B & W Manual

“”There are two pairs of terminals at the back of each speaker that enable bi-wiring (left). For conventional, single wire connection, fit the supplied link wires to join the like polarity terminals together (right). 

Note: Bi-wiring separates the signal paths to each section of the speaker and can improve both stereo imaging and detail resolution. It also enables the use of different types of cable for each frequency band.

Bi-amplification goes a stage further and involves the use of two independent power amplifier channels for each speaker. This is not the same as a fully “active” drive as the speaker's internal passive crossover is still used. If bi-amplification is employed, ensure that each amplifier channel has the same gain, otherwise the speaker’s tonal balance will be distorted.””

Price (per pair): 800 D3, $tbd; 802 D3, $22,000; 803 D3, $17,000; 804 D3, $9000; 805 D3, $6000; HTM1 D3, $ 6000; HTM2 D3, $4000 (floor stands: FS-805NG, $500; FS-HTM, $600). bowers-wilkins.com

RJ, I think I understand your Dilemma, Spending that type of money on Naim SL Speaker Cable, you would like the jumpers to also be SL!

Well you also spent a pretty penny on those 802’s. 

Being an Armchair QB, I would suspect B & W might have designed their Wire Links to work hand and hand with their Crossover! 

Both Schools Advocate better performance, In Bi Amp Mode! 

So my Advice to you, Just pick up another 500, Of Course DR, and get your present 500 DRed if not already done, and Of Course more SL speaker Cable, and forget about the jumpers! 

Then Next Year Go Active, Full Loom, 

Nice System Enjoy your Gear, After All you're in the Top 1% or Better!!!!

We have 802 D2 version which was a little less expensive than the new D3 series, which I'm looking forward to hearing in the near future. I'm going to buy myself a new pair of speakers as a present to myself when I retire in two years, so I have plenty of time to assess what I want. The shortlist would ATM include the new D3s and the new Kudos 808s.

I have biamped the 802s with two 300s and can confirm sounds excellent, but the single 500 is better. As for biamping with two 500s, just don't go there. 

Steve J posted:

We have 802 D2 version which was a little less expensive than the new D3 series, which I'm looking forward to hearing in the near future. I'm going to buy myself a new pair of speakers as a present to myself when I retire in two years, so I have plenty of time to assess what I want. The shortlist would ATM include the new D3s and the new Kudos 808s.

I have biamped the 802s with two 300s and can confirm sounds excellent, but the single 500 is better. As for biamping with two 500s, just don't go there. 

Two years, put in plenty of overtime, High end Speakers aren't cheap these daysI retired back in 2008, Hence I'm stuck with my Briks Oh Well! 

But on a quick note, not to hog the Post, I did share with RJ, last week that I had the opportunity to listen to the Full Loom at a Seminar. 

BTW the Seminar was hosted by the Esteem Manu,  over @  Audio Plus.  Of Course, that beautiful sound, lodged into my mind will soon fade away, as I adjust to my mediocre system. However, One Thing that was deeply implanted into my mind, was the build quality of the Loom. 

Manu explained briefly, the design of the SL Speaker Cables, and their benefits. When I closely examined them, they resembled my Linn K 20 Cables, Oversized 20% with a clear thick clear coating, exposing the silver colored speaker wire, the cable was flexible, unlike the Nac A 5, as reported from the Forum.

Hence, I can See one's concern, such as Jumpers etc..... After All, at this stage of the Game, one is trying to squeeze the most out of their System!!!! 

Out 

Allante93 posted:

Thanks Guy's I think I got it now! 

RJ, I think I understand your Dilemma, Spending that type of money on Naim SL Speaker Cable, you would like the jumpers to also be SL!

Well you also spent a pretty penny on those 802’s. 

Being an Armchair QB, I would suspect B & W might have designed their Wire Links to work hand and hand with their Crossover! 

Both Schools Advocate better performance, In Bi Amp Mode! 

 So my Advice to you, Just pick up another 500, Of Course DR, and get your present 500 DRed if not already done, and Of Course more SL speaker Cable, and forget about the jumpers! 

 Then Next Year Go Active, Full Loom, 

Nice System Enjoy your Gear, After All you're in the Top 1% or Better!!!!

Thanks Allante93, it's nice to have one's upgrade strategy mapped out so clearly as you have kindly done for me above.

But I think I might leave ordering the second 500 + 5m S/L pair until after Christmas... after all I wouldn't want to be responsible for  breaking up the happy homestead just before the big day (SWMBO is not what you'd call a big fan of audio equipment or of music in general, or of NAP500's in particular). 

Whilst on the subject, do have a wonderful Christmas and a prosperous 2016 (the latter being a foregone conclusion for our Naim dealer of course). 

I tried NACA 5 speaker links on my B&W speakers but soon went back to the ones supplied by B&W, so I agree with Steve J

You would think that B&W who are capable of manufacturing speakers that use Diamond tweeters would use suitable speaker link cables, and in fact they do supply very good ones.

I would not advise anyone to replace the speaker links supplied with B&W 800 series speakers.

By they way, my B&W dealer does not encourage the usage of Naim amps with his speakers as they are according to him underpowered and he advises Classe amps.

Similarly, I don't think anyone at Naim has ever in the last 40 years shortlisted B&W speakers to use with their amps either. One reason is they are quite difficult to drive. 

 Over the years, some comments from various forum users about this combo B&W/Naim "too polite" "too slow" "sucks the life out of the music" "yawn puts me to sleep"

so you could give yourself another Xmas present by selling the B&W and get some other speakers that Naim do advise such as Neat, Kudos, Ovators, Dynaudio, PMC and last (no comment on least) FOCAL.

PS : I sold my B&W and much happier musically now, my Dynaudio speakers do not have speaker links as they are deemed inferior and just another hindrance to getting to better music by them 

not personally liking the B&W sound, I have to admit to knowing someone that went from Briks to 802D on the end of 135s and got spectacular results.

And they are a Naim dealer for as long as Naim have been around.

analogmusic posted:

I tried NACA 5 speaker links on my B&W speakers but soon went back to the ones supplied by B&W, so I agree with Steve J

You would think that B&W who are capable of manufacturing speakers that use Diamond tweeters would use suitable speaker link cables, and in fact they do supply very good ones.

I would not advise anyone to replace the speaker links supplied with B&W 800 series speakers.

By they way, my B&W dealer does not encourage the usage of Naim amps with his speakers as they are according to him underpowered and he advises Classe amps.

Similarly, I don't think anyone at Naim has ever in the last 40 years shortlisted B&W speakers to use with their amps either. One reason is they are quite difficult to drive. 

 Over the years, some comments from various forum users about this combo B&W/Naim "too polite" "too slow" "sucks the life out of the music" "yawn puts me to sleep"

so you could give yourself another Xmas present by selling the B&W and get some other speakers that Naim do advise such as Neat, Kudos, Ovators, Dynaudio, PMC and last (no comment on least) FOCAL.

PS : I sold my B&W and much happier musically now, my Dynaudio speakers do not have speaker links as they are deemed inferior and just another hindrance to getting to better music by them 

I don't believe Naim have ever advised as to which speakers should be used. That is entirely at the discretion of the listener, with advice from their dealer as required. 

I also don't believe it's sensible just to say 'sell the B&Ws' - many people I'm sure prefer them to Dynaudio or many other brands. 

In giving advice we all need to be sensitive to others' preferences. I think my speakers are great, but many think they are anything but. 

analogmusic posted:

 

By they way, my B&W dealer does not encourage the usage of Naim amps with his speakers

Mine does.

analogmusic posted:

I tried NACA 5 speaker links on my B&W speakers but soon went back to the ones supplied by B&W, so I agree with Steve J

You would think that B&W who are capable of manufacturing speakers that use Diamond tweeters would use suitable speaker link cables, and in fact they do supply very good ones.

I would not advise anyone to replace the speaker links supplied with B&W 800 series speakers.

By they way, my B&W dealer does not encourage the usage of Naim amps with his speakers as they are according to him underpowered and he advises Classe amps.

Similarly, I don't think anyone at Naim has ever in the last 40 years shortlisted B&W speakers to use with their amps either. One reason is they are quite difficult to drive. 

 Over the years, some comments from various forum users about this combo B&W/Naim "too polite" "too slow" "sucks the life out of the music" "yawn puts me to sleep"

so you could give yourself another Xmas present by selling the B&W and get some other speakers that Naim do advise such as Neat, Kudos, Ovators, Dynaudio, PMC and last (no comment on least) FOCAL.

PS : I sold my B&W and much happier musically now, my Dynaudio speakers do not have speaker links as they are deemed inferior and just another hindrance to getting to better music by them 

If your dealer were talking about a NAP155 driving 802 Diamonds, Analog, he'd be right, but I was running 803 diamonds with a NAP300 quite happily. And then B&W had some kind of promotion and I changed (up) to my current 802 Diamonds - at this point I felt that a NAP500 would do them better justice, so changed from 300 to 500, and experienced all the things you hear about the 500 compared to the 300 amps... much tighter and more extended bass lines, an enhanced clarity in the mid range, and of course a reduced home heating bill in winter and 'enhanced' electricity bills year round (but that's a small price to pay for the audio experience of NAP500 + 802 Diamonds, don't you agree?   

BTW, I used to run Classé amplification back in the day of my 804D & then 803D's - very pleasing... in fact I once said to SWMBO, talking about audio kit, "This is where I want to be."   - how wrong can you be ??

Roger 

feeling_zen posted:

not personally liking the B&W sound, I have to admit to knowing someone that went from Briks to 802D on the end of 135s and got spectacular results.

And they are a Naim dealer for as long as Naim have been around.

Always wanted to  hear the Naim Linn Combo, Back in the Day, it was Active Briks powered by a 6 pack of 135's.

Coming from a Full Blown Aktiv System, with Linn, and owning my Briks for nearly 3 decades, I'm very familiar with the Briks! 

Linn XO with Bingo Card and Dirak PS/Kairin/ LK 280 x 3, had a certain ease to the Music, the Briks seam to sang effortlessly.

Now Remember, Back in the Day Briks were still a load to handle, that's why many went to the six pack.

Those were the day's, When Linn did what it did best and Naim did what it did best.

Well, fast forward, Briks Bi amped with 250.2 on the lows and mids, and 200 on the highs 250 shut down when pushing for an hour or more. Switched, put the 200 on the lows and mids, no shut down, but the non regulated 200 didn't perform like the 250.2.

Well, Tri amped, 250.2/200/250.2, with the 200 on the mids, Briks never sang like this. Naim's Amps strong suit, they really swing, Naim's Achilles Heal, lack of power.

To sum it up, I think Naim has moved to the right to accomodate the market demands, I would also imagine B&W has moved to the left.

So, no surprise B&W D2's sound great with 135's, I would like to hear what the D3's sound like Active.

JMHO!!!!

I have Kudos Titan T88s and was using NACA5 cable and NACA5 links too. After I changed to SL speaker cables (and interconnects) I tried the Vertere £150 type and found them better doing a few A/B comparisons with the NACA5 links, but in the end, bearing in mind the cost of the SL cable, went for the £450 Vertere ones and found them better again, and reasonable value in the context of the extent of the improvement and the cost of the "full loom" of SL cables.

Neil

Neil Bennett posted:

I have Kudos Titan T88s and was using NACA5 cable and NACA5 links too. After I changed to SL speaker cables (and interconnects) I tried the Vertere £150 type and found them better doing a few A/B comparisons with the NACA5 links, but in the end, bearing in mind the cost of the SL cable, went for the £450 Vertere ones and found them better again, and reasonable value in the context of the extent of the improvement and the cost of the "full loom" of SL cables.

Neil

Good to hear Neil... think I'll start saving up £450 

my suggestion was very much tongue in cheek - I know for sure anyone who owns 802 Diamonds is not going to sell them. I am interested to audition the D3 range and may well come back to the 805D3. But yet, this approach is the "speaker first" approach, which I am now a bit skeptical about.

Seems at least 3 forum members got the 802D2 and Nap 500 to work well, but at today's prices of the 802D3 I just can't justify this to myself financially.

Especially when alternative approaches which cost a lot less money do work spectacularly well.

It isn't about money in absolute terms, but more about musicality for Pound/Dollar/Euro spent.

analogmusic posted:

Seems at least 3 forum members got the 802D2 and Nap 500 to work well, 

 

803D2 worked splendidly too. In our room. They started out as the default choice after audition and unlike any other B&W I'd heard since the 1970s - in a good way. We didn't think the 802D2 would snap in so well. We tried them for a giggle.  They worked!

The 802s were one of the most significant upgrades we have ever made.

I have said it before that when we had a home loan   we both were up early in the morning in our pyjamas listening to LPs. That has never happened before or since.

So in our system they do something special.

Richard

Contacted a dealer who stocks B&W speakers today with the thought of comparing the 802 D2 with the D3. They had sold on their demo pair of D2s but suggested I compare the new 802D3 with the 800D2 which they have. They were confident in informing me that the 802D3 sounds much better. Worth a listen so I'll arrange a session in the new year. I did inform them I wouldn't be buying for a while so a home demo isn't required at this time.

Steve,

Looking forward to your findings on your comparison between the 'old'800D2 versus 'new'802D3! Will be very interesting for anybody considering upgrading from the D2 to D3 series.

If you have a chance, I would be also interested in a comparison 802D2 versus 803D3, as they have a similar price.

Bert,

They have sold their 802D2s so I'll be comparing the 802D3 with the 800D2. The dealer said that the new 803D3 was, in their opinion, better than the 802D2. 

Steve

It seems to me that this link problem is being made rather complicated. All bidirectional speakers I have used have the two sets of terminals one above the other,each post having a hole for the links. I simply bare enough speaker cable which I then pass through the hole in the LF terminal and continue up through the hole in the HF terminal. Simple, no plugs or solder just a good tight electrical connection. I appreciate that to do this would not be possible with SL cable unless you discard some very expensive plugs,but for most cables there would be no problem.

Philip