System Pics 2016

wenger2015 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Says a Focal owner...

HH,  just been admiring the DBL's and SBL's in the previous pictures , I'm a little intrigued that they are comfortable with both 272/250 and 552/500.

While SL2s are comfortable with both, the DBL most definitely lives more happily with the latter. I've never heard DBLs, but have used SL2s with both 272/250 and 552/300. They are extraordinarily capable. 

tonym posted:

Mario posted:

The hey day of hifi  - when naim made speakers !!!!!

 

as Amy Mann says "everything's different now"

 

If DBL's and ARO's were still around, I'd buy them again, just to have spares !

 

Mario.

 

Wonderful setup Mario. Looks like we've at least three speakers in common! (any nSats tucked away somewhere?). I suspect my DBLs will outlive me, the way things are going.

Thanks Tony,

yes your system is one that i have always admired, the only one I know of that has the wonderful DBL's with a theatre system added on. 

My theatre stuff is still not yet connected, just waiting on Emotiva to release their XMC-1 with all the Atmos stuff next Jan. I have a 300 and  2 x 250DR's instead of the mighty 500's, need to DR my 300 and 552.

Yes have nsats and SL2's to complete the 7.1 set up when it finally comes together with a Velodyne DD18, another beast I know you have experience with. Rotel power amps waiting for surround once processor is available. Nearly just bought a Denon all in one, but may push a little harder and go the seperates.

An aro'ed LP12 with gedden and Krystal is taking up all my listening at the moment, wonderful thing vinyl through the LP12, but I want it all, so will get to finishing the surround soon! TV is a 4K 79 inch LG.

We are lucky to own the DBL's, I wish that all naim lovers could have heard them as they are a real milestone in loudspeaker innovation.  They are just pure music. Heard all the Focal stuff (except Sopras) I like them but DBL's are so much more life like and less artificial. Natural and organic are words that come to mind. I really love them to bits.

best Mario.

Hungryhalibut posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Says a Focal owner...

HH,  just been admiring the DBL's and SBL's in the previous pictures , I'm a little intrigued that they are comfortable with both 272/250 and 552/500.

While SL2s are comfortable with both, the DBL most definitely lives more happily with the latter. I've never heard DBLs, but have used SL2s with both 272/250 and 552/300. They are extraordinarily capable. 

What's the main differences between SL2's and DBL's? 

Is that a serious question? 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Is that a serious question? 

Yes

Well, they're bigger...

wenger2015 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Is that a serious question? 

Yes

Unfortunately DBL's , SL2's , both before I seriously got into hi-fi, but having read numerous  posts singing their praises, my curiousity has been aroused and although I don't like the look of them cosmetically, that certainly has nothing to do with the seriously good sound they must produce? 

Wenger, the DBL can best be considered as a much bigger, better, 3 way version of the SBL - Separate Box Loudspeaker.  Like the original SBL and later SL2, it was designed by Roy George and effectively started life as a reference transducer for designing the NAC52 and CDS. On the DBL, the Scanspeak treble and Naim midrange drivers are located in the top box, and the middle box houses the ATC made bass driver. The lower box forms not just the overall base and backbone (including spiked frame for the boxes) of the speaker, it is open to the middle bass box (linked via flexible sealed gasket) the bass driver venting through a Naim designed PAR, which is a frequency dependant filter. The boxes are damped via special weights mounted according to each cabinet and fine goat hair is used as well. The tweeter is mounted on a sprung plate and the midrange mounted in the middle of a spiral cut and damped section of the top box  - this way the mechanical effects of the drive units influencing one another are ameliorated.  The crossover is in a separate box that is mounted to the rear of the cabinet and easily removable to enable full active operation. 

The SL2 works on similar principles but further refined.  The fiddliest bit of the old DBL and SBL was the flexible gasket  seal for the bass box to vent into the bottom box. The SL2 dispensed with the gasket and came up with a brilliant piece of engineering - a precisely defined gap between two perfectly flat interface plates that, in speaker terms, acted just like a seal.  It also completely removed the mounting of the tweeter to the box, instead mounting on an arm.  

I would have loved to have seen similar solutions applied to the DBL's successor, but I think the cost of certain elements of the SL2 were underestimated - it was a pure engineering project with little regard for cost, and that was a problem that would only get much bigger with any DBL replacement.  In the end, Naim took a different path, particularly because of the great potential strengths shown by early BMR technology, and we ended up with the Ovator range.

Call me old fashioned Richard but I think its a great shame that the technology behind the ibble, sibble, dibble and, er, SL2s is no longer on the market in any form other than second hand. They are in my view truely iconic designs. RG and JV were truely onto something special....

Stu

Yes, can't help feeling there would be a good market now among naimophiles for both DBLs and SL2s. Perhaps Naim might consider making (a few) new ones to order?

I own both the SL2 and DBL and I have always said that  a DL2 would naims SPEAKER STATEMENT!!!

Go on naim, show the French how's it's done! 

Richard Dane posted:

Wenger, the DBL can best be considered as a much bigger, better, 3 way version of the SBL - Separate Box Loudspeaker.  Like the original SBL and later SL2, it was designed by Roy George and effectively started life as a reference transducer for designing the NAC52 and CDS. On the DBL, the Scanspeak treble and Naim midrange drivers are located in the top box, and the middle box houses the ATC made bass driver. The lower box forms not just the overall base and backbone (including spiked frame for the boxes) of the speaker, it is open to the middle bass box (linked via flexible sealed gasket) the bass driver venting through a Naim designed PAR, which is a frequency dependant filter. The boxes are damped via special weights mounted according to each cabinet and fine goat hair is used as well. The tweeter is mounted on a sprung plate and the midrange mounted in the middle of a spiral cut and damped section of the top box  - this way the mechanical effects of the drive units influencing one another are ameliorated.  The crossover is in a separate box that is mounted to the rear of the cabinet and easily removable to enable full active operation. 

The SL2 works on similar principles but further refined.  The fiddliest bit of the old DBL and SBL was the flexible gasket  seal for the bass box to vent into the bottom box. The SL2 dispensed with the gasket and came up with a brilliant piece of engineering - a precisely defined gap between two perfectly flat interface plates that, in speaker terms, acted just like a seal.  It also completely removed the mounting of the tweeter to the box, instead mounting on an arm.  

I would have loved to have seen similar solutions applied to the DBL's successor, but I think the cost of certain elements of the SL2 were underestimated - it was a pure engineering project with little regard for cost, and that was a problem that would only get much bigger with any DBL replacement.  In the end, Naim took a different path, particularly because of the great potential strengths shown by early BMR technology, and we ended up with the Ovator range.

Thanks for the insight Richard,  absolutely fascinating.

Richard Dane posted:

Wenger, the DBL can best be considered as a much bigger, better, 3 way version of the SBL - Separate Box Loudspeaker.  Like the original SBL and later SL2, it was designed by Roy George and effectively started life as a reference transducer for designing the NAC52 and CDS. On the DBL, the Scanspeak treble and Naim midrange drivers are located in the top box, and the middle box houses the ATC made bass driver. The lower box forms not just the overall base and backbone (including spiked frame for the boxes) of the speaker, it is open to the middle bass box (linked via flexible sealed gasket) the bass driver venting through a Naim designed PAR, which is a frequency dependant filter. The boxes are damped via special weights mounted according to each cabinet and fine goat hair is used as well. The tweeter is mounted on a sprung plate and the midrange mounted in the middle of a spiral cut and damped section of the top box  - this way the mechanical effects of the drive units influencing one another are ameliorated.  The crossover is in a separate box that is mounted to the rear of the cabinet and easily removable to enable full active operation. 

The SL2 works on similar principles but further refined.  The fiddliest bit of the old DBL and SBL was the flexible gasket  seal for the bass box to vent into the bottom box. The SL2 dispensed with the gasket and came up with a brilliant piece of engineering - a precisely defined gap between two perfectly flat interface plates that, in speaker terms, acted just like a seal.  It also completely removed the mounting of the tweeter to the box, instead mounting on an arm.  

I would have loved to have seen similar solutions applied to the DBL's successor, but I think the cost of certain elements of the SL2 were underestimated - it was a pure engineering project with little regard for cost, and that was a problem that would only get much bigger with any DBL replacement.  In the end, Naim took a different path, particularly because of the great potential strengths shown by early BMR technology, and we ended up with the Ovator range.

Great succinct, unbiased write up, Richard. Just out of curiosity, what speakers did you use before your current SL2s?

stuart.ashen posted:

Call me old fashioned Richard but I think its a great shame that the technology behind the ibble, sibble, dibble and, er, SL2s is no longer on the market in any form other than second hand. They are in my view truely iconic designs. RG and JV were truely onto something special....

Stu

+2

2007 CES Naim debuts it's CD555

CD555/282/Snaxo/250.2s/DBLs

""Naim Launches New Ovator loudspeaker: the S-800

The new Ovator S-800, Naim’s new flagship loudspeaker, draws on five years of research into Naim’s Balanced Mode Radiator (Naim BMR) and introduces Naim’s radical flat-panel bass unit, designed to deliver a sound quality more consistent with the Naim BMR and which removes the cavity effect, a problem with conventional bass units.

August 10, 2012. Hong Kong High-End Audio Visual Show.""

Ovators stop production, 2016!

Focal/Naim launches Active Focals/500 series?

Let's Face it we're a dying breed, the market isn't there!

It's the Digital Age, we're lucky to see Digital pre amps from Naim.

Stopped in my local Linn Dealer, hoping to see the Exakt Klimax digital XO set up, Nope!

Linn CDPs, gone, next on the list Linn Pre Amps.

Milliniums & Gen Ys just can't afford all those components.

 So just sit back, and enjoy what you have.

Just my Take.

Allante93!

Tony, gosh, I have a fair few speakers but if I recall correctly, on the Naim kit, before the SL2s came along I had a pair of Allaes (wonderful) which had just replaced ES14s (I still have). I also had some Proac Studio 100s on Target R1s that worked well with a big valve amp I had but wasn't so good with the Naim kit.  Oh yes, there were some Quad ESLs too, Julian's old pair that had been rebuilt by Quad and used for benchmarking the Naim FL1 project, and not forgetting my old early Rogers LS3/5as that now live in Hong Kong.  Probably a few others I've forgotten...

My SL2s actually started out with black Ash cabinets but when I integrated it all as a music/HT system with n-Sats and n-Sub in cherry, I had them rebuilt into an old set of B stock cherry cabinets.  That's how they remain today.

That's some serious miscellaneous. It seems you're quite settled and happy with the SL2s. Have you ever tried any Ovators on your current configuration? I'm sure the guys at Naim would be more than accommodating', lending you a pair or two. 

Allante93 posted:

stuart.ashen posted:

Call me old fashioned Richard but I think its a great shame that the technology behind the ibble, sibble, dibble and, er, SL2s is no longer on the market in any form other than second hand. They are in my view truely iconic designs. RG and JV were truely onto something special....

Stu

+2

2007 CES Naim debuts it's CD555

CD555/282/Snaxo/250.2s/DBLs

""Naim Launches New Ovator loudspeaker: the S-800

The new Ovator S-800, Naim’s new flagship loudspeaker, draws on five years of research into Naim’s Balanced Mode Radiator (Naim BMR) and introduces Naim’s radical flat-panel bass unit, designed to deliver a sound quality more consistent with the Naim BMR and which removes the cavity effect, a problem with conventional bass units.

August 10, 2012. Hong Kong High-End Audio Visual Show.""

Ovators stop production, 2016!

Focal/Naim launches Active Focals/500 series?

Let's Face it we're a dying breed, the market isn't there!

It's the Digital Age, we're lucky to see Digital pre amps from Naim.

Stopped in my local Linn Dealer, hoping to see the Exakt Klimax digital XO set up, Nope!

Linn CDPs, gone, next on the list Linn Pre Amps.

Milliniums & Gen Ys just can't afford all those components.

 So just sit back, and enjoy what you have.

Just my Take.

Allante93!

 

 

 

I must be doing pretty good then since I can afford them

Tony2011 posted:

That's some serious miscellaneous. It seems you're quite settled and happy with the SL2s. Have you ever tried any Ovators on your current configuration? I'm sure the guys at Naim would be more than accommodating', lending you a pair or two. 

I've listened to S600s in a number of situations and went on the road supporting the Bentley Mulsanne launch with a CDX2, Supernait and a pair of the then-new S400s. There's much to admire in the Ovators but, for me, the SL2s are something very special.  There's a purity to their conception, design and engineering that is compelling, and there's a also a madness to them too.  They reward a long term relationship in getting the best from them, where you really get to know their requirements and foibles and understand what makes them work.  I'd love some DBLs - preferably active please - but they are far harder to accommodate and no matter how they are dressed up, they are still pretty bluff.  These days I probably listen most to a small system with Linn Kans in my office and a system in my bedroom with n-Sats.  I love these two speakers as well.  And I have some interesting vintage JBLs standing by, including an ex Martin Birch pair of 4311s (they're in pretty good nick considering and sound pretty good - great on heavy rock, of course, particularly Deep Purple...) so lots to play with..

If you had Richard list out all the gear he has owned, it would read like a "History of Home Audio Equipment in the Latter Part of the 20th Century." If he hasn't owned it, he's seen and heard it!

DrMark posted:

If you had Richard list out all the gear he has owned, it would read like a "History of Home Audio Equipment in the Latter Part of the 20th Century." If he hasn't owned it, he's seen and heard it!

Yes, if you was in his position, I'm quite sure your profile of Speakers would read quite well also.

But , what impresses me, is with such list, after all these years, he's very fond of those SL2s.

To boot, I would imagine, he spends a lot of time in his office, must be something special with those tweeters.

Scanspeak. 

Naim's SL2s & Linn's Kans

Nothing wrong with Bass in the Sleeping Room!

Allante93!

So in the past year I have: 1) Replaced my distributor block with a Shunyata Venom block and an AV Options cryo cable; 2) plugged the power amp directly into the wall; 3) DRed the 252 Supercap; 4) DRed the 250; 5) replaced the HiLine with a Tellurium Q Black Diamond interconnect; 6) replaced the NACA speaker cables with Tellurium Q Ultra Black; 7) replaced the USB cable with an Audience USB cable. And it all looks the same!! But it sounds completely and wondrously transformed!

Hmm...

Yes, the rack is by Box who also are responsible for the beautiful veneer on  the DeVore Nines.

Wilko posted:

So in the past year I have: 1) Replaced my distributor block with a Shunyata Venom block and an AV Options cryo cable; 2) plugged the power amp directly into the wall; 3) DRed the 252 Supercap; 4) DRed the 250; 5) replaced the HiLine with a Tellurium Q Black Diamond interconnect; 6) replaced the NACA speaker cables with Tellurium Q Ultra Black; 7) replaced the USB cable with an Audience USB cable. And it all looks the same!! But it sounds completely and wondrously transformed!

Great! Devore and Naim:-))