Naim Statement issue

mrclick posted:

I do wonder whether this thread would be better suited for April 1st rather than Boxing Day!

Yes indeed David. I thought the same when I looked at the OP's system details.

John.

MDFdude posted:

Chord Sarum tuned Aray interconnect, power cord & speaker cables

I would have tried the Statement with Naim's own SL cables first, as these were specially and specifically designed for use with Statement.

From my albeit brief encounter with a Chord Sarum cable I would not put it into a system with Statement. The SL cables are a lighter presentation compared to the Chords which may tend towards a bit oppressive in a Statement system.

Also the S1 Pre in my system allows through a lot of deep bass - far far more than the 552 Pre did. This can (and is) rather great - but did cause me initial teething/installation problems with the subsonic bass causing me to get a tendency to a headache and I noticed a lot of wax in my ears which I never had problems with before. It was the subsonic output I was reacting to. In may case it was resolved re-arranging my fraim for my Power Amps (I run Active NAP500 with mu S1 Pre), as the stacking impacts on bass - but you may also find re-positioning of speakers helps.

DB.

MDFdude posted:

Chord Sarum tuned Aray 

interconnect

power cord

& 

speaker cables

If its not the wallet creating headache it could very well be these

MDFdude posted:

Chord Sarum tuned Aray

might be the culprit.

did you dem the S1 before buying it? if so, did it have the same effect on dem?

DB - so u did experience some form of headache ? That is quite a relief for me then. I am not alone !

Ken - I live in a small place so no demo prior to commitment. However, I did attend a Hifi show a couple of months after that & heard the statement albeit in show conditions & different setup. I did not experience any headache.

The reason I chose the Chord was that the 500 series system I had the pleasure to audition at my friend's place had a full loom of the stuff & I liked the system a lot.

Also for some reason the SL XLR maximum length is limited to 1.5m & no more. I need longer.

Bit DB u have made my day. There is hope yet !

I am using a product named Frank Power Bank. This plugs into a parallel socket next to one's equipment. The effect & it is a very obvious even a lay person can tell sort of an effect - is enhanced bass among others isotope sonics benefits. I have multiple units installed in a bid to enhance the bass of my ARC + Gryphon based system.

The of other brand of cable I have on hand are Cardas Clear types

Gents - I also wish that this is April Fools but the reality is anything but & I am a bit wary as tough times are in store ahead. 

can you plug the S1 elsewhere for power? if so, try it and let us know...

also please test ONE source at a time, with any other sources completely DISCONNECTED from the system, including unplugged from mains and sigal cables disconnected from pre-amp. i.e test with the most basic setup

have you tried moving speakers a bit?

enjoy

ken

All the money in the world does not necessarily bring musical enjoyment, and a selection of the world's best electronics does not necessarily bring musical satisfaction.

The residency of the mind listens through the orifices of internalisation. When there is turmoil within, an external influence will add to the turmoil.

Take a moment to sit down and become mindful of the mental chatter within. Notice the spontaneous thoughts that appear. They are like ripples on a pond. Watch them dissipate. Watch them reappear. Throw in too many stones and one cannot appreciate the pond anymore. All that one sees is the ripples

just read your profile -- there is a lot of equipment there (in particular lots of sources hence my earlier suggestion). you may have mentioned this already -- but what power amp are you using? yes, it would be useful if you could update your profile and also get your dealer around asap.  how soon can this be?

was the demo system you heard also using the same sort of ancillaries (especially cables)?

i very much doubt the S1 is underperformaing, but there is probably something very specific in your setup that is causing you this headache... 

strange...

enjoy

ken

Well I am officially on vacation for the next 10 days & physically removed from my system. 

I have noticed digital sources everyone of them inevitably brought on the discomfort. Analogue sources less so but not conclusive. 

I have moved the speakers around a bit but same result 

I will try one source a time with other disconnected when I am back. I am most anxious to disconnect the Frank Power Bank & give that a try to tone down the bass a little. The irony here is that I am seeking more bass in the first place !

I understand that personal mood does affect one perception but in this case the discomfort was not present in the other pre power setup. So, real & unwanted.

By the way, I am using the full set of Naim Statement pre power amp

The statement pre power amps are plugged into separate breaker outlets one for each unit. I.E one breaker per strip to power sockets with each piece plugged into different breakers.

MDFdude posted:

 

By the way, I am using the full set of Naim Statement pre power amp

ah! this should be audio nirvana, period!!!

enjoy your break...

ken

[URL=http://s198.photobucket.com/user/joeling39/media/hifi/IMG_0616_zpsyf7rl1cp.jpg.html][IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/al...0616_zpsyf7rl1cp.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

The Statement

[URL=http://s198.photobucket.com/user/joeling39/media/hifi/IMG_2409_zpsl7iv8eln.jpg.html][IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/al...2409_zpsl7iv8eln.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Older setup

From what has been said so far - I'd go for using the Statement System as it was intended with the cables specially developed for it - the Super Lumina cables. Naim will make-up custom lengths of DIN-XLR leads, as they specifically mention that was their intent with this design for those interested. But try a SL input source interconnect lead as it is least expensive and will tell you if the character goes in the direction that you like.

I tried the Chord Cables when I had a 552 pre and it was a thicker, heavier sound than I really wanted, but the 552 is a lighter-sounding Pre compared to the S1 Pre, so it may be that although it may work well in a 500 reference system, which it most probably was more fully tested with, it may not suit the Statement.

I may be totally wrong and the Chord may be fine, but you should never buy a system on assumptions - the Statement was meant to be used with SL cables and assuming the Chord would be better may not be correct in that case.

DB.

Older steup

Statement in the house

We need some input from Andrewneilsen, an active quadrophonic S1 setup will calm the tempest within. Minh's comments may be quite sensible (if a little florid). Has your friend with the similar system experienced a headache or any misgivings of the sound from your set-up?

MDFdude -

You've already received the best advice! Statement owners should expect their dealer, distributor and Naim to ensure that the system is set up perfectly, and performing to very high expectations. Unfortunately, it's a tough time of year to muster support, but hopefully this happens soon. 

DB's experience with deep bass may be relevant, but there may be lots of other reasons why you are getting headaches.  Has the problem with your Statement been there since installation, or has it come on only recently?  As I am sure you know, we all go through periods of changing health. I can not listen to music when my sinuses are acting up. In fact, not enjoying music is often a leading indicator that a cold or some other problem is on its way!

Am a bit surprised by your NDX choice. It's a nice streamer for sure, but doesn't a Statement deserve nothing less than Naim's top source: either an NDS or CD555, each with dual 555PS DR power supplies?

Good luck figuring this out, and rest easy knowing that Naim has a very strong commitment to quality service and customer satisfaction.

ATB.

Hook

Dear DB,

Thanks for the advice although hard to swallow

Ken,

Happy Holidays to you too. Family time is the most important time.

I noticed the headache shortly after firing up the system not on the first day though. In between, it seemed to have diminished or gone away a bit. However, I was more focused on getting the source right struggling to reconcile the performance of the digital front end. Later on for a period of time I abandoned the Statement completely & went back to the old setup. I only went back to the Statement a few days ago (although the system was switched on all these time) to try out the NDX which was on loan to test a hunch that perhaps Naim pre power works better with a Naim source. This is now confirmed with my preference of the NDX over DCS & Esoteric, again hard medicine to swallow. So, yes need to resolve headache issue then I will need to address the front end issue.

MDFdude posted:

I noticed the headache shortly after firing up the system not on the first day though. In between, it seemed to have diminished or gone away a bit. However, I was more focused on getting the source right struggling to reconcile the performance of the digital front end. Later on for a period of time I abandoned the Statement completely & went back to the old setup. I only went back to the Statement a few days ago (although the system was switched on all these time) to try out the NDX which was on loan to test a hunch that perhaps Naim pre power works better with a Naim source. This is now confirmed with my preference of the NDX over DCS & Esoteric, again hard medicine to swallow. So, yes need to resolve headache issue then I will need to address the front end issue.

It's possible that they are both related. ie the NDX that you have on loan might be revealing its limitations when providing the source to the Statement, and as a consequence, causing the headaches.

It could be that other factors are also causing subtle problems.

When you get back from holiday, i'm sure your retailer will be keen to help. Enjoy the holiday and put this on the back-burner.

MDFdude posted:

Dear DB,
Thanks for the advice although hard to swallow

Suggestions to explore really, rather than advice. I have been where you are and it is easy to spend a lot of money, not get something quite right, then the expensive system screams the problem back at you, but you don't know where to begin.

We know the Statement with Naim's cables works well, so that is a reference point. The Chord cables may be better or worse - unknown in the context of the Statement system without A-B comparison and extended listening tests. I've been caught-out a little too often with something seeming obviously better, only to find I don't want to play music so much - remove item - music returns - try to learn something.

I'm not setting out to try to annoy you - just suggest a path to determine what may be the problem. Also Statement does go through a rocky run-in a few weeks after purchase for a few weeks, so beware that too.

Your excellent system pics makes me now look at my system and see it is so small and neat now!

DB.

Dear DB,

On the contrary，I appreciated your comments.

Still hard to swallow though.

A view from the mountain top:

1) I'm driving in my car listening to my Bose system. It's no where near as good as my Naim system, but I did not get a headache.

2) I'm at the Clapham Grand listening to an old friend perform at the UK Beatboxing Championships. There is plenty of bass bloat, but I did not get a headache.

3) I'm at Ministry of Sound listening to Aly and Fila pumping out 100,000 Watts of edm. There is plenty of everything (apart from definition), but I did not get a headache.

Looking at that listening room I think I'd have a headache- sensory overload or what?

If anything, I normally find a walk in some fresh air followed by a Nurofen 400mg normally does the trick�� Turing the volume down a notch and listening to something a wee bit more tranquil also does the trick for me too...Happy Holidays. 

I have  a fully loaded Linn and Naim system but will be spending the next few days listening to my Father-in-law's NAD 3020 and Philips 104...back to earth or what? Always enjoyable though!