Naim Statement issue

MDFdude posted:

...... This forum has already yielded some actionable items. 

......

 

 

Oh, in what sense?   C.

Chris - see some of the comments from DB

Christopher_M posted:

MDFdude posted:

...... This forum has already yielded some actionable items. 

......

 

 

Oh, in what sense?   C.

I think he means things he can try, not possible legal actions!

Christopher_M posted:

MDFdude posted:

...... This forum has already yielded some actionable items. 

......

 

 

Oh, in what sense?   C.

Chris, I don't think he means "actionable" as in "Going to Court"

I think he means as in "giving it a try"

Oh no no no yes not going to court

Surely do not want to get on the naughty list of our esteemed supplier

Perhaps Naim should go back to Julian's addage when he first started...

....Rumour was that you couldn't buy a Naim 12/160 or 32/nap/250 unless you also bought or already had an LP12 and a pair of Bricks.

In other words, Julian wanted you to have a system that would play music, not a collection of parts the might give you a headache.

Ah, divided by a common language     :-)      C.

I wonder if this is a set-up issue?  Looking at your room, what are all of those other boxes doing to the quality of the power?  Any switch-mode power supplies in the mix?  I'd start by clearing out the room except for Naim gear.  See if your headache goes away.  

Oh, replace that NDX with a NDS.  

MDFdude posted:

I am not about to give up. Over the years the system has served its purpose well. Started 20 years ago with a NAD 302 & a pair of Canadian made Mirage speakers & a Sony 100 disc changer bought from Frank Prowse Hifi in Perth. 

So please don't get the impression I am very unhappy with my system.

This forum has already yielded some actionable items. 

 

I I will hear from the manufacturer see what they say

 

Any suggestions or observations please feel free to sound out 

 

By the way for the nth time - the NDX is only on loan for comparison to test my curiosity regarding compatibility of Naim components.

Am wondering whether your dealer has access to Super Lumina speaker cable and interconnect so that you could experiment with these without any financial outlay?

Part of the reason I'm thinking about that is because I assume you are using the balanced connectors between the S1 Pre and monoblocks.  Those are Super Lumina cables which means that you're mixing two or more cable manufacturers in your system.  Trying all SL cables might be an easy way to either confirm or eliminate this possibility.

joesilva posted:

I have not read all the replies, but thought I would share some personal experience with you.  About ten years ago, I had a 500 Naim system driving Martin Coltrane speakers.  I bought the entire dCS system as my digital source.  While it had all the dynamics, imaging, hi's, mid's & low's in the correct scale, etc., and it was pleasant enough to listen to for about 15 minutes or so, it too gave me a headache if I listened any longer.  Trouble is, you have very little concrete evidence to fall back on if you simply tell your dealer you get a headache from listening to the system, as they will possibly turn around and say they don't feel the same.  One of my friends speculated that there was just too much signal coming through the speakers, possibly high frequency signals brought on by the way the dCS interacts with the Naim.  I never found out the reason why, but I do know that my headaches went away when I sold the dCS and bought a CD555.  I am not suggesting that you sell your dCS.  I'm only suggesting that dCS and Naim are possibly incompatible.  The Constellation amps you have in the photo are all world class.  At this level, you will likely have to live with trade-offs whichever way you turn.  From an overall system basis, I'm reasonably confident that Statement will give you more of some things while giving up on others.  If you want Statement at its best, I reckon you ought to give an entire Naim system a chance.  IMHO, Naim equipment work best with Naim cabling, including power cables.  You might have spent a great deal on more expensive cables such as the Nordost Odins, but you will not be getting the best from your Statement with anything other than Naim cabling and a Naim source.  Its sad, but Naim seldom works better with a non-Naim component.  BTW, I suspect we share the same dealer.

 

Joe

this seems quite useful MDFDUDE, along with all the other suggestions.

question: are the statements fully run in???

i agree with others that you get all the equipment out of the room to start with and just try Naim system on its own, with whatever speakers and the trial NDX. and using Naim cables. 

enjoy

ken

I'm no expert on this level of gear but from experience I categorise headaches from listening to music  into 3 categories, 1 too loud,2 frequency abnormalities ie too bright too bassy,3 timing /imbalances. I suspect it's number 3. Timing/ imbalances can be caused right from the initial power to your kit. For example I have suffered kit induced headaches on a number of occasions over the years,once   when powered every piece of kit with its own dedicated 6 mm cable back to fuse box (8 x 15 m runs I thought and was advised that rfi pickup and or earth imbalances were to blame) One 10 mm run into good quality mk sockets sorted that one. Another was using 2 unmatched Hicaps on an 82 ( I know your kit is in another league) and lastly but most recently using two mono block amps again unmatched. It appears The brain can be really upset by being hit with music that although in isolation ie each speaker seams perfect together upsets it. I believe we all have different tolerances to this and that's why some of us are quite  happy hearing music on less exotic systems 

My Bad, I thought those pictues were at the dealers show room. Not his house!

 I just listened to a modest system a couple weeks ago at my local dealer.

Hosted by the Esteem Manu!

Simple: Statement!

3 Tier Fraim, 555 PS DR x 2 / NDS.

SL Full Loom with Naim PL's.

Vivid Giya GT3

40K 2014 Stereophile award winning Speakers.

I got an headache when I got home and played my System! LOL.....

I was at the Sinagpor eagle recently & heard the Giya G2 driven by Mola Mola digital amp - nice

Front end was an Aurender W20 cannot recall the DAC

Giya has potential

I meant Singapore Show

David - thanks for that experience - one of the things to check out when I am back

A room node frequency did it for me once and it took a while for me to work out what the problem was.

G

I understand your delimma!

USD $$

90K S1 Pre

180K S1 Amps

25K CD 555

13K NDS

Perhaps Naim will produce a 50K Source to complement thier reference Amps!

Wish I had your problem! LOL..

Enjoy and a prosperous new Year!

David Michael Audio 

12/11/15

Siminar Royal Oak MI USA

Simple and Nice

I think all this talk of tweakery (cables etc) is utter nonsense and simply a clear reminder of how far off this planet many incumbents are.

S1Pre worked just fine in my system, with naca5, hiline cables, and some hydra mains.

People here are talking as if it is some sort of ultra fussy diva. It isnt. It simply isnt. 

If it is genuinely giving a headache, then something is broken. I'd start with "whoever set it up" and move on to "clearing out the room of unnecessary crap" followed by "getting it set up by someone who has a clue".

Discussing fiddling with the last-few-percentage tweaky bits is simply a waste of time here.

Guys, something is *broken* here. 

Oh, and to be blunt, I wish this phrase "I dont think X is compatible with Y" could stop.

Lets start with some basic electronics and physics and move forward from there. dCS is "compatible" with just about everything on the planet -- it has standard interconnection, standard levels, and standard frequencies responses. It has standard power and standard earthing requirements. 

Now you might think that the *foibles* of one thing doesnt match well with the *foibles* of another. But phrases like "X is not compatible with Y" is taking the credibility of the argument over the edge of the cliff, like a cartoon character from Hanna Barbera.

Rant over.

I think the OP should fly Jon in for a consulting session! 

I agree with almost all of the above, but having heard a full DCS stack a few times, I can't say I am a fan. Admittedly the demos were all in unfamiliar setups, so I can't be 100% sure. They were all with "ultra clean" speakers (Magico, YG, Estelon), and there seemed to be a consistent "details first", almost "metallic" kind of sound. I could not listen for more than ten minutes or so without fatigue.

I still think an NDS/555PS DR does a better job of playing music, and would be a welcome upgrade to a Statement setup.

ATB.

Hook

Posted by Jon honeyball:

"If it is genuinely giving a headache, then something is broken. I'd start with whoever set it up, and move on to clearing out the room of unnecessary crap, followed by getting it set up by someone who has a clue".

Wow! I agree!

The $350,000 3 Tier Fraim System I listened to a couple of weeks ago, was so  Simple, even I could Install it!

Being the first, and probley last time hearing a Statement, you know I carefully looked at all the connections. I even touched the SL speaker cable, and realized visually, it resembled my  Linn K 20, difference being 20% larger with clear coating, exposing silver color wiring, and flexible, unlike Nac A5.

Something must broken, as you say!

Remove all that other Hifi crap from your room!

Naim equipment (especially the Statement series) is kind of picky and dislikes the presence of Hifi trash! 

It even dislikes the furniture and the room itself. So for maximum Naim sound enjoyment move your equipment  to cloud number nine!

MDFDude, that's quite a system or systems you have there. Any combination of that lot should be able to be able to sound remarkable. It should only be degrees of remarkable we are discussing here. Something is clearly broken or very badly configured. Playing around the 'edges' by changing one exceptional source for another or one perfectly adequate cable for another perfectly adequate cable should be like adding salt in cooking, tweaking to taste, not defining the difference between fun and headache. After all, the 500 worked fine....

If I were in your shoes and bored, I'd forget all about the NDX etc and connect one of those stunning record decks to the amp and disconnect the CD Players. Any of them, any of them should not give you not give you a head ache.

Call the dealer get them to fix the situation. Get them to show you them sounding remarkable or suggest they take their amps back.

Good advice, something is wrong, talk to your retailer ASAP and he/ she can get help from Naim if needed.