Dr upgrade first? Or extra boxes?

gary yeowell posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

FreezingColdDownHere posted:

I can recall reading an artical about pairing 272 with 555ps would achieve 90% of NDS. 

Possibly written by a 272 owner 

I heard it made it 90% of an NDS and 552 combined.....

While percentages is anything difficult. The last percentages are so important to get closer to a natural experience of music - so I like to shoot to also get the last percentages inside of my music listening capability...

Bert, did you take me seriously? my tongue was firmly in my cheek.

Indeed Andrew wrote in his review in the last April issue of Hi-Fi News: "Combined with the XPS I’d say it was about 75% there. Bolt on the same 555PS power supply the NDS uses, and you’re into the mid to high 80s of the NDS’s performance." Not quite there but definitely a great rig.  

Chag -

gary yeowell posted:

Bert, did you take me seriously?

No not really - just wanted to make a non related comment to the fact that the difference between the boxes lower in the hierarchy and at the top do pay off, no matter how good the cheaper ones are.

f.i. I love my Muso for what it does, but would never compare it with my main system.

I'd put it around 83.5%, but Andrew should know, he is a reviewer.

gary yeowell posted:

I'd put it around 83.5%, but Andrew should know, he is a reviewer.

Some wine might raise the percentage to 86,1.....

Of course the percentages are there simply as a guide - anyone with half a brain (50%!!) knows that you cannot objectivise the subjective - but they do give a good feel for the relativities between different bits of equipment. 

It's also true that squeezing out the last bit of improvement is likely to be exponentially expensive. 

It would be interesting to hear from the OP what they make of all this. 552? NDS? LP12? Second mortgage?

Rating it as a % of another components quality isn't helpful imo.  When you are spending that kind of money it's that last 1 or 2 % that you are paying the premium for - an NDS at 90% may no longer be a world class product.  There have been many discussions on here about diminishing returns as you work your way up the Naim scale - but the same applies for any other high performance product; a Golf may give you 90% of a Ferrari but it's the 10% extra that you pay an extra £300k for because it is so hard to achieve.  Edit - I'm in no way saying a 272 is not a class product, I haven't heard one but there are many people on here who's views I respect that say it is, I'm just making a view that a few % at this level costs a lot.

HH - it was the OP's comments that raised the 90% of NDS point.

You're right!

Chag... posted:

Indeed Andrew wrote in his review in the last April issue of Hi-Fi News: "Combined with the XPS I’d say it was about 75% there. Bolt on the same 555PS power supply the NDS uses, and you’re into the mid to high 80s of the NDS’s performance." Not quite there but definitely a great rig.  

Chag -

 

I would be keen to try this out also, if going the power supply route would the 555PS (assume DR version, but non DR are well priced on the used market, then DR later when funds allow) improve on the XPSDR in any meaningful manner considering price differential and other factors for the 272? Another interesting point.

Well, the Forum has spoken, it appears to be an unanimous decession, 552 clear Winner! 

Mind you, I never heard an 272, but would imagine it's a fine player, and Idea for the Individual who is trying to decrease boxes.

In fact, I never heard a 252, or 552!

Hence, the Armchair QB, it's easy to be an armchair QB, read a couple of articles and Wala, you'll be creating statements like, DRed front and rear end, sporting a CD 555, with an beefed up Ndac, piece of cake.

Well, Why does the Forum exist.

1st: An excellent market device.

2nd: Queries.

3rd: To promote one's own gear.

4th: To align a pecking order.

And last but not least, Entertainment!

All of which is Great, but to stay grounded, I would advise a second none Naim System.

 My main system:

Cdx2/Hi Cap DR/282/Passive Tri Briks

 My second system:

Emotiva dac 1/Primare Pre 30/ Arcam P1 Mono Blocks/ Vienna Acoustic BabyGrands.

Oh BTW, I have heard a Simple 3 Tier Fraim Rig!

555PS DR x 2 / NDS

Statement

 Naim Full Loom & PLs 

Vivid GTA 3 

Not bad, and bargain @ 350K USD

LOL, enjoy YOUR gear!

The Armchair QB!!!!!!

Chag... posted:

Indeed Andrew wrote in his review in the last April issue of Hi-Fi News: "Combined with the XPS I’d say it was about 75% there. Bolt on the same 555PS power supply the NDS uses, and you’re into the mid to high 80s of the NDS’s performance." Not quite there but definitely a great rig.  

Chag -

 

Thank you for that. I'm only approximately 43.6% confident that I agree with him 100%.

today, i am 90% happy ...

enjoy

ken

It might be instructive to demo the NAC-N 272 + 555PS through a preamp + PS, to see whether that configuration adds anything musically meaningful to the mix. You can use one of the AV inputs and switch unity gain off / on if you wished to be a stickler.

I don't believe that DR / non-DR would affect that comparison tremendously.

I also believe the NAC-N 272 / 555 DR PS / NAP 300 DR + PS to be a real sweet spot in the range, though I must admit that I've never heard that combo on SL2s, which speak to a different set of priorities IMHO.

This has been a quite fascinating thread, for various reasons.....

The consensus view that a 552 is the best move certainly has excellent logic, but not (to my mind) if selling the 272 is a necessary budgetary step towards that.

Nowhere in the OP's question does he hint that he might consider abandoning streaming, and revert to CD.  And who does ?  Well maybe 10% of folks perhaps, whilst 90% go the other way - for a reason.

A 272 can always be used as a line source into a 552, and so assuming the latter is affordable (eg 2nd hand) I think that is what I'd do.  Then play the longer game for other/further changes.

Alternatively, just DR the 300 for the time being (as Analogmusic suggested) and wait for the 372/572 to come out.....

I have the humbler XPS DR and 250 DR with my 272, and it makes a delightful combination with the SL2. I'd be interested, David, what you mean about the difference in priorities, because it sounds very good to me. 

karlosTT posted:

 

Nowhere in the OP's question does he hint that he might consider abandoning streaming, and revert to CD.  

The OP already has pretty good CD player so I would not describe that as reverting

whilst 90% go the other way - for a reason.

 

Yes, convenience.

Okay I've heard the 272 on 4 separate occasions.  

First up simply with an XPS DR and 250 DR with Neat speakers - Motives.  Great system could listen to it all day everyday but impression when I got home was that my CDS3/XPS (non DR)/282/HC/200/Dyn 1.8s was way ahead in terms of soundstage, resolution, bass. 

Next was 272/XPS/250/Sopra 1 in comparison with NDS/555/S1/250/Sopra 1 and hardly surprising the latter was all over it. 

3rd occasion was 272/250DR into Sopra 1 vs NDX/SN2 into Sopra.  On this occasion I actually preferred the 272 BUT the consensus view was in favour of the NDX. 

Finally, 272/XPS/300DR/Sopra 2 vs NDX/XPS/282/SC/300Dr/Sopra 2.  Not even close the latter had more of everything in droves. 

To the OP we have ordered your 552 for you but seriously if you do as you intend and buy a 252 your listening will be transformed.  

Gary, convenience may be the precise reason.  But if it drives 90% of decisions (at a  guess, and I mean amongst "hifi enthusiasts", not Joe Public in general), then surely it can't be ignored ? 

Well only the OP can answer that question in a relevant way, but mention of buying an NDS doesn't strike me as the talk of kicking streaming into touch.....

karlosTT posted:

mention of buying an NDS doesn't strike me as the talk of kicking streaming into touch.....

No, that happens after the OP buys a turntable and some records 

The OP already has pretty good CD player so I would not describe that as reverting

Chris, I didn't mean reverting in a negative way (SQ etc).  I meant chronologically.  Most folks evolved into streaming from CD over a passage of time, typically involving a rip project along the way, or (these days) perhaps just switching to Tidal et al. To go back to the silver disc from that is relatively unusual, I think, regardless of the CDP's quality.....

No, that happens after the OP buys a turntable and some records 

Haha.  I'm a vinyl lover so won't argue the point.  However, I do think that whilst vinyl could be an interesting direction for the OP or any other digital-based music lover to explore, I don't feel it really answers or addresses the original question ?

By purchasing a 272 and considering an NDS, the OP would seem to have a serious interest in streaming.  Assuming a ripping strategy is in place, then I agree with those who have recommended a large trade-in:

Out: CD555/555PS and 272

In: NDS and 552 (late vintage ex-dem is a fine option)

DR the remaining 555PS and 300 and viola, the OP now owns a superb streaming setup!

With that solid digital solution in place, I agree with Gary that the only way to go further up is vinyl. A Well Tempered Amadeus GTA with an EMT JSD 6 is a wonderful combination, and a Superline sounds great when powered by a 552's AUX2.  Even if the OP lives in a small town with no local record shop, collecting vinyl by purchasing online can be a very rewarding experience.

But to quote Harry once again, that's just me.  Literally, that is, as I just described my current setup with the exception of Ovator 400s versus the OP's venerable SL2s. Ooops... 

Hook