Mu-so Qb

Eloise posted:

I assume you are meaning software for streaming that fits the need of classical music?  Personally I find MinimServer (which is not from Naim of course) along with the Naim App very suitable for classical music but YMMV and classical is only of secondary importance for me (it took my time to tag but I can browse through Composer ... Orchestra ... Conductor ... Work and down to Movement).

I apologize, the following is out of topic. I am going to open a new thread if this disturbs you

Eloise, can you do the following:

1) Browse through all composers. As, for example, in MPaD-composers.PNG

2) For a composer, open all works by that composer. As in MPaD-works-1.PNG

3) For a work, open all interpretations of that work. As in MPaD-interpretations-1.PNG

If so, I would be interested in better understanding your tagging scheme. Thanks, nbpf

nbpf posted 

But even a simplistic browsing scheme like composer / work / interpretation would be a good starting point. I might be mistaken, of course, but my understanding is that the current Naim app does not support browsing a music collection according to this scheme. One can help oneself, of course. We can use hierarchies of symlinks to simulate unavailable filtering schemes. But, as mentioned, I would prefer if Naim would put more efforts in developing a more professional system for indexing and accessing musical contents. 

Best, nbpf

 

 

Hi nbpf

This is easily achieved if that is really all that you wish. 

Use that directory structure and run eg Minimserver or Asset as  server software.  The Naim app then gives you the option to display in "folder view".  

You will, however, have much more flexibility by using appropriate tags. 

nbpf posted:

Eloise posted:

I assume you are meaning software for streaming that fits the need of classical music?  Personally I find MinimServer (which is not from Naim of course) along with the Naim App very suitable for classical music but YMMV and classical is only of secondary importance for me (it took my time to tag but I can browse through Composer ... Orchestra ... Conductor ... Work and down to Movement).

I apologize, the following is out of topic. I am going to open a new thread if this disturbs you

Eloise, can you do the following:

1) Browse through all composers. As, for example, in MPaD-composers.PNG

2) For a composer, open all works by that composer. As in MPaD-works-1.PNG

3) For a work, open all interpretations of that work. As in MPaD-interpretations-1.PNG

If so, I would be interested in better understanding your tagging scheme. Thanks, nbpf

Yes ... on the "home" page of my Naim App I can select composers (infact I would usually first select Genre and then Classical as the composers includes the composer of most tracks not just classical).

Once in the composer I can go to get a list of Works.  Or from "Classical Music" Genre I could drill down further and get to "Choral music".

The way minim server works at every level it shows all relevant tags which will narrow your search.  So as well as the typical "Artist" and "Album" and "Track" I have added "Work", "Composer", "Conductor" and  "Orchestra".

So I could in the same way you showed go "Brahms", "Symphony No.3" and then select London Symphony Orchestra or Berlin Philharmonic or alternatively select Valery Gergiev and see which orchestra he has conducted that work with.

Now I accept that the UnitiServe / HDX is not versatile enough to do this, but the Naim App just relies on what the UPnP server sends to it and MinimServer can be versatile in this way.  This is all done by tagging rather than relying on directory structure so one day I can browse Composer...Orchestra...Work and the next day might choose to browse Orchestra...Conductor...Composer...Work etc.

Bananahead posted:

kaydee6 posted:

It seems like there are many here listen to music in the kitchen. My impression is muso are all kitchen hifi..

Lot's of people like to keep their wives happy it seems..................................

My wife and I listen to music fairly often whilst in the kitchen.  The living room, with my "main" system, just adjacent, so we often just have that on.  But sometimes we don't want the "big" system on that loudly, and prefer some music from within the kitchen itself. It's not 'serious listening.'  Of course sound matters, but not in the way it matters when seated between $4000 (each) speakers etc. etc.

But some of what we listen to in that kitchen environment is live local sports.  FM has been the free source for that for a long time now, however.

R.K posted:

nbpf posted 

But even a simplistic browsing scheme like composer / work / interpretation would be a good starting point. I might be mistaken, of course, but my understanding is that the current Naim app does not support browsing a music collection according to this scheme. One can help oneself, of course. We can use hierarchies of symlinks to simulate unavailable filtering schemes. But, as mentioned, I would prefer if Naim would put more efforts in developing a more professional system for indexing and accessing musical contents. 

Best, nbpf

Hi nbpf

This is easily achieved if that is really all that you wish. 

Use that directory structure and run eg Minimserver or Asset as  server software.  The Naim app then gives you the option to display in "folder view".  

You will, however, have much more flexibility by using appropriate tags. 

Well, of course one can use that directory structure, but this is not the way one wants to do it, is it? I use symlinks to achieve the same goal (see links in my reply to Eloise above) but this is not the clean way to do it either. As you say, the clean way would be to use tags and then have an app that allows one to filter a database according to multiple criteria. I do not think that Minimserver supports WORK and INTERPRETATION tags or that the Naim app supports filtering according to multiple criteria but I would be happy to learn that I am wrong!

Paul Stephenson posted:

Fred, thanks for your reply, the next time you are in the UK visit naim, I will buy you lunch explain some of the reasons behind our thinking and introduce you to some of the many naim staff who care about music and audio.  You are welcome here along with valid questions and criticism but please keep it focused and don't insult the integrity of naim it's staff and the majority of forum members here who do listen, enjoy music and be respectful to the views and fellowship of forum members. Now where were we

I am not a Naimoholic, but it is this kind of response that engenders a great deal of respect for the company, while the obvious passion for what Naim does to many people's enjoyment of recorded music expressed by the vast majority on these fora engenders respect for black (unfortunately not purple) boxes bearing the Naim name...

Paul Stephenson posted:

Fred, thanks for your reply, the next time you are in the UK visit naim, I will buy you lunch explain some of the reasons behind our thinking and introduce you to some of the many naim staff who care about music and audio.  You are welcome here along with valid questions and criticism but please keep it focused and don't insult the integrity of naim it's staff and the majority of forum members here who do listen, enjoy music and be respectful to the views and fellowship of forum members. Now where were we

Paul,

I visited your factory in early 2014 and found it fascinating.  The attention to detail and the dedication of your staff was truly impressive.  Given I have an S1 pre, I'd love to visit again to now see how you manufacture them.  Any way we could make that happen?

rackkit posted:

Bananahead posted:

kaydee6 posted:

It seems like there are many here listen to music in the kitchen. My impression is muso are all kitchen hifi..

Lot's of people like to keep their wives happy it seems..................................

I'm the chef in the house! 

I have to turn the main system up in the next room to hear it in the kitchen over the din of the hob fan but that means blasting out the neighbours. 

 

This seems a common situation, thus there being a market for a Qb-like device in the homes of music lovers and hi fi enthusiasts.

nbpf - I guess if you look at the iPhone as a general computing platform I can see why it would disappoint - but as a smartphone I suspect it does pretty well from a product perspective. Its been 10 years since I was a product manager so things might have changed of course - but I would be delighted if I was managing the iPhone product.

rackkit posted:

nbpf posted:

rackkit posted:

fred40 posted:

Yes. But we have to face the fact that Naim is not a high-end brand anymore. The exclusivity is gone. Naim is becomming a Household name, a mainstream product.Like there are hundreds seen on the shelfs. Most Naimies seem to welcome this for whatever reason.

Why does it matter if they do become a household name? Does it affect your existing gear if your next door neighbour buys a Mu-so and few Mu-so Qbs to scatter around the house? 

I've scrimped and saved for years to own a 7 'high end' Naim black boxes, 2 pairs of speakers and subwoofer! I think it's great that they're now doing these all in one units as i've been after decent sound quality elsewhere in the house (Kitchen). Before the Mu-so Qb nothing they had would fit but this does. It doesn't threaten the rest of my gear but compliments it. 

I really don't see what the problem is here.

 

rackkit, I think that fred40 has in fact a very good point.

Of course, it does not affect me directly if my neighbours buy a Mu-so (although, now that I think about it, it coud in fact affect me quite badly: at the moment I can hardly hear them but, with a new toy in their kitchen, who knows ...)

But this is not the point. What is under discussion here is not whether the Muso range is going to be directly beneficial or detrimental to me or to you or to our neighbours.

What is under discussion is a decision, by Naim, to further develop a range of products which is well outside the focus that has, so far, shaped and informed the perception of Naim as a brand.

I think that it is legitimate to raise doubts as to whether this is a sensible decision. There are many examples of companies that, by expanding (or trying to expand) beyond their original focus and niche market, have lost part of their identity and appeal and eventually failed.

Another reason why the decision to further develop the Mu-so range could be criticized is that it could be seen to set false priorities. Naim is already struggling to properly support its original range of products, think for instance of the server family or of their software and firmware products. One could possibly argue that they had better invested time and resources in improving their core-market products.

I do not know whether it was a good or a bad idea for Naim to further develop the Mu-so range. The only interest that I have in a cheap streamer is for testing the Naim app. But I see good reasons for arguing against such decision.

Porsche were criticised in some quarters for entering the SUV market with the Cayenne years ago but the profits from the sales of it has led to even better sports cars (911, Cayman, Boxster). 

Naim aren't abandoning their core products  just like Porsche haven't.

I don't own a Porsche BTW... 

I DO own a Porsche (in fact I've owned three 911s) and don't resent them in the slightest for launching an SUV.  It basically saved the company in the 90s.

Half of their sales (I'm not sure if this is by units sold or revenue) are now SUVs which shows their success and what the general market think of the move.

nbpf posted:

As you say, the clean way would be to use tags and then have an app that allows one to filter a database according to multiple criteria. I do not think that Minimserver supports WORK and INTERPRETATION tags or that the Naim app supports filtering according to multiple criteria but I would be happy to learn that I am wrong!

You are wrong ... you can set MinimServer up to use any tags you like and the Naim app will allow you to browse through whatever MinimServer is set up for.  As I say I use Work and then Orchestra and Conductor tags, but Work and Interpretation would work just as well.

If you google "minimserver with classical music" there is a post entitled "How to organize and tag classical music" which I think has all the details you need.  (Sorry just running out so can't give more details how but its well documented on the MinimServer website.)

nbpf posted:

Eloise posted:

I assume you are meaning software for streaming that fits the need of classical music?  Personally I find MinimServer (which is not from Naim of course) along with the Naim App very suitable for classical music but YMMV and classical is only of secondary importance for me (it took my time to tag but I can browse through Composer ... Orchestra ... Conductor ... Work and down to Movement).

I apologize, the following is out of topic. I am going to open a new thread if this disturbs you

Eloise, can you do the following:

1) Browse through all composers. As, for example, in MPaD-composers.PNG

2) For a composer, open all works by that composer. As in MPaD-works-1.PNG

3) For a work, open all interpretations of that work. As in MPaD-interpretations-1.PNG

If so, I would be interested in better understanding your tagging scheme. Thanks, nbpf

easy with J River Media Center nbpf. 

Hmack posted:

PeterJ wrote:

"if you want some really iffy software then install Windows 10"

I have, and it works rather splendidly for me - both on a hi-end PC I have built for myself, and on an old laptop I have recently upgraded. It really isn't 'iffy'. Some people have had teething problems with Windows 10, but no more so than with new versions of IOS.

I am not personally an Apple fan. I choose to run Microsoft based PCs (after a flirtation with Linux)' and possess an Android smart phone. However, I am writing this post on holiday using my iPad Air of which I admit to being very fond. So I guess I have a foot in each of the main camps, and my taste in software is as eclectic as my taste in music.

I've had loads of problems with W10.  These have included the vanishing start menu, search and edge as well as sound problems.  These have affected many people (but by no means all) but there appears to be no rhyme nor reason why.  One I had to fix (twice) by uninstalling and re-installing Dropbox.  All came and went after automatic upgrades.  Like you I use Windows PCs along with an iPad and iPhone.

Eloise posted:

nbpf posted:

As you say, the clean way would be to use tags and then have an app that allows one to filter a database according to multiple criteria. I do not think that Minimserver supports WORK and INTERPRETATION tags or that the Naim app supports filtering according to multiple criteria but I would be happy to learn that I am wrong!

You are wrong ... you can set MinimServer up to use any tags you like and the Naim app will allow you to browse through whatever MinimServer is set up for.  As I say I use Work and then Orchestra and Conductor tags, but Work and Interpretation would work just as well.

If you google "minimserver with classical music" there is a post entitled "How to organize and tag classical music" which I think has all the details you need.  (Sorry just running out so can't give more details how but its well documented on the MinimServer website.)

Thanks Eloise, this is a very important information for me. Best, nbpf

Eloise posted:

You are wrong ... you can set MinimServer up to use any tags you like and the Naim app will allow you to browse through whatever MinimServer is set up for.  As I say I use Work and then Orchestra and Conductor tags, but Work and Interpretation would work just as well.

If you google "minimserver with classical music" there is a post entitled "How to organize and tag classical music" which I think has all the details you need.  (Sorry just running out so can't give more details how but its well documented on the MinimServer website.)

The point I was trying to make, but you have done so rather more elegantly than I managed

Graham just contact Steve Hopkins naim support and he can arranged a trip, I will make sure I am there

paul

Peter,

i guess if you have experienced these problems, then it is hardly surprising that yo would feel so strongly. Perhaps I have been lucky.

I would hazard a guess that most of the problems out there relate to the fact that the Microsoft platform is not so tightly controlled as the Apple market. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage depending upon your particular perspective.

I do however recall the reluctance of many Naim users to update to the latest version of IOS, for fear of 'breaking, their Naim apps. The IOS platform certainly isn't bullet-proof.

robert- posted:

I would imagine the cloth grill would get very dirty if used in a kitchen environment 

Our kitchen located B&W A5 'scrubs' up quite well with an attack of the cordless vacuum and a light sponging. I'm sure Naim have considered this.

Paul Stephenson posted:

Graham just contact Steve Hopkins naim support and he can arranged a trip, I will make sure I am there

paul

Thanks Paul, I'll do just that.  Will be good to meet you again (we met at the UHES Bentley event June 2014).

Hmack posted:

Peter,

i guess if you have experienced these problems, then it is hardly surprising that yo would feel so strongly. Perhaps I have been lucky.

I would hazard a guess that most of the problems out there relate to the fact that the Microsoft platform is not so tightly controlled as the Apple market. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage depending upon your particular perspective.

I do however recall the reluctance of many Naim users to update to the latest version of IOS, for fear of 'breaking, their Naim apps. The IOS platform certainly isn't bullet-proof.

 

It looks like I (and a significant number of others but a tiny minority overall) have been unlucky.  It seems to be settling down now.  Overall. W10 and Edge are much better than their predecessors and I would like to be able to use them.  IOS does have problems too (I remember IOS8 being particularly bad).

analogmusic posted:

The likes of FRED40 seem to be amazingly tone deaf, as to not be able to understand that it was always about the musicality.

I hope musicality is where the Qb will be able to shine and differentiate itself. Historically, be it replay or format the majority of consumers have always chosen convenience over quality.

In this market I think Naim have ticked a lot of the convenience boxes: size, Airplay; Bluetooth; Spotify; iOS/Android support. I think it looks great, but I agree with some others that at GBP 100 less it would be more attractive. Still until we have heard it we won’t be able to define it’s value.

jfritzen posted:

This is yet another product with digital amps in it. As Naim are becoming more familiar with this technology, will digital amps eventually accompany the lower end amps in the line, the 100 or the 155? Or a multichannel amp?

Purely selfishly, I hope that Naim’s increasing expertise in this area leads to a fully digital Classic Series system. I’m thinking two speaker cabinets with a digital amp and crossover for each driver all controlled by one Naim black box. Speaker socks optional;-)

The only trick this appears to have missed, assuming the multi-room will work with Uniti series systems, is the ability to be run off a battery. A unit of this size would have been ideal to take 'off grid' if this had been done.

However, it looks like a great piece of kit and I look forward to hearing one.

Graham Clarke posted:

Paul Stephenson posted:

Graham just contact Steve Hopkins naim support and he can arranged a trip, I will make sure I am there

paul

Thanks Paul, I'll do just that.  Will be good to meet you again (we met at the UHES Bentley event June 2014).

Didn't know you were there too!

I've ordered mine today - hopefully it will rock up on the first of March. Baa.