Mu-so Qb

Richard Dane posted:

I've had a bit of a clean up after this afternoon's rather strange detour - please keep on topic.  Thanks.

Oh, and of you're looking for that other thread, I've removed it - otherwise it just becomes a proxy for continuing what I've just removed here.

Damn, that was the only reason I logged in!

Thanks For prompt action, Richard - it was getting out of hand.

Well, I currently have two Musos, and i am certainly considering getting a few of these for the bedrooms.

Whatever anyone says, they WILL be MUCH better than the pure DAB radios that currently reside in them!

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

My view is that it is surprising so many people have such trenchant views when they haven't even heard the product. I don't feel I can express a view on an audio product without having heard it - clearly, everybody's mileage varies on that. I do find it amusing that people have strong views without hearing it.  But plenty of people have strong views about certain cars without having even been in them.  And that is common to so many threads I have seen here (and in many other places) over the years

I have a heard a muso in rather poor circumstances (pretty much in a shop window) and was impressed by its timing / musicality (though from another thread there is some doubt I can use the word musicality). Might get one, might not...

but if I have to to agree with everyone to avoid being criticised for belittling, this isn't the place for me...

I make my own mind up (or at least try to, as we are all considerably less objective than we would like to think)

anyway, if you don't want people being blunt you had better ban people from Yorkshire

It isn't always necessary to hear a product to buy one.

Naim has a solid reputation for excellent sound and music quality and many people can buy on that alone. I bought my 282 without an audition at home, and it lived it to the reputation.

I don't see your point, other than thread crapping on here. Just because you don't feel you can't express a view because you haven't heard an audio product doesn't mean others can't. 

In your own words "maybe this isn't the place" for you.

"Necessary" to listen before buying, no. "Advisable", yes. The strongest and most consistent theme of advice here over the last 10+ years has been "listen to a product before buying it". 

You seem to be saying I have to have a pro or anti view on the product before I can comment, and that commenting on the nature of the discussion itself rather than the product itself is "threadcrapping". 

I beg to differ

As I said earlier in the thread, Naim is fairly expensive even with UQ, so 600 GBP is a good price point to start enjoying the Naim sound. Maybe it isn't as good as separates, but it will have that rhythmic drive to the music, I don't see any issue with recommending this to my family and friends even if they did not hear it.

A number of people here know enough about Naim to trust them. Hungry Halibut bought his 272/250DR without hearing them. 

I would always recommend people should listen and decide for themselves (or test drive a car or check the picture on a tv for themselves). 

I am always curious to see what Nigel will change next

I still have Nigel's SBLs though am now rather coveting his SL2s! I did buy the SBLs without ever hearing any (the only Hifi purchase that I have ever done that) - but that was at least based on lots of people's experience of listening to them - and them being a good pair in great condition with good provenance. I have never heard SL2s either 

Hi LILYFY, good to see you back on this here forum! And you're right in your appraisal of this topic. I guess I might be tempted to try a baby Muso unheard. I've got the teenage version & if I really didn't like it I'd just take it back to my dealer.

analogmusic posted:

it will have that rhythmic drive to the music, I don't see any issue with recommending this to my family and friends even if they did not hear it. A number of people here know enough about Naim to trust them. Hungry Halibut bought his 272/250DR without hearing them. 

Great then. I'll take that knowledge straight to the bank with the confidence that the qb obviates the need for a demo. I might be inclined to throw a pair of S-400s in the cart as well. They've got the Naim logo.

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

"Necessary" to listen before buying, no. "Advisable", yes. The strongest and most consistent theme of advice here over the last 10+ years has been "listen to a product before buying it". 

Indeed.  Listening reduces the chances of you not liking it, so to some extent it's a risk reduction exercise.  If you're comfortable buying something without listening to it first then that's your prerogative.  It's your money to choose to do with how you wish, not anyone else's.

I bought the Super Lumina DIN-XLRs and Snaxo-Supercap cables without listening to them first (they were so new no one had them).  I was prepared to take the risk and have been very happy with them.

Some people will buy without listening some won't. What other peoples' opinions are on this one way or the other won't make a jot of difference. We'll be listening and going through its operation in the shop before we decide to buy it.

Listening to music replay equipment is certainly desirable, and indeed advisable to reduce risk of disappointment. However, for anyone with no decent HiFi shop within sensible traveling distance, buying is of necessity without hearing unless the amount being spent justifies what can be significant additional cost, and time (think flights and possibly hotels). I have bought major items without hearing for that reason, though only after considerable research, for which the most useful thing is a group of people that you know have similar responses to equipment to you. Mu-so and Qb may be sold in other places like John Lewis, but not all even all have a JL within reach, though they do mail order...

At the bottom end of the scale, say a portable radio costing say 100 quid or less, listening is possibly over the top. The Mu-so and Qb cost significantly more, and listening would indeed be the best way to decide if they are best for the money, but I don't think it is at all unreasonable to buy on the basis of reputation and recommendation (other than by salesperson) after due consideration if listening isn't reasonably practicable.

But from a different angle, if intending buyers of other one-box music systems can be persuaded to listen, or happen to hear, these products while in the shop (with good sales info visible), they might be persuaded it's better, to Naim's benefit (see the JL thread!)

joerand posted:

analogmusic posted:

it will have that rhythmic drive to the music, I don't see any issue with recommending this to my family and friends even if they did not hear it. A number of people here know enough about Naim to trust them. Hungry Halibut bought his 272/250DR without hearing them. 

Great then. I'll take that knowledge straight to the bank with the confidence that the qb obviates the need for a demo. I might be inclined to throw a pair of S-400s in the cart as well. They've got the Naim logo.

your money, your choice, your ears

Either which way, makes no difference... 

Based on the photos and data available, Mu-So Qb have drivers firing to three sides (passive bass radiators to the left and right side).

Well, Mu-so had only front firing drivers but I was amazed by the soundstage it produced. Could Qb be even better in that respect or are there any potential difficulties to expect in terms of placement in corners, etc.

Any opinions?

rmatosev posted:

Based on the photos and data available, Mu-So Qb have drivers firing to three sides (passive bass radiators to the left and right side).

Well, Mu-so had only front firing drivers but I was amazed by the soundstage it produced. Could Qb be even better in that respect or are there any potential difficulties to expect in terms of placement in corners, etc.

Any opinions?

Very sensible questions you raise and I guess cannot be answered until a few dealers have Qbs to listen to.

On the subject of try before you buy, I have always done so but as the range of Naim I now own (and aspire to) is rather costly, the risk is too high to do otherwise.

I have also carried out considerable research to narrow down my upgrade options. There is indeed one source of information I have become more and more reliant on - that is this very forum. There are of course differing views on here about certain Naim products - but that is to be expected. Often however there tends to be a consensus view with some 'shades' either side. Having demoed (and subsequently bought) several black boxes in recent years, I have found the 'forum consensus' to be surprisingly reliable and to align with my own views on a particular black box most of the time.

Although I will continue to demo (at home if possible) before buying due to the cost of future upgrades, I have learnt to trust the consensus on here. Long may it last and thanks to all who take the time to share their experiences and advice.

Tonym - thank you for your kind welcome on my return

my last posting was probably nearly two years ago when I was pondering record cleaning machines - but I got sort of sidetracked into an expensive coffee habit instead as my 50th birthday present, and then got mega busy with work. Still undecided on vinyl - time will tell

Am starting to ponder what my next upgrade might be - NDS (replace ND5XS) or speakers. I have got my acoustic energy ae1 speakers back from my brother after about 7 years so will try them out first. But the ND5XS is broken and I am so busy I cannot find the time to return it to be fixed. Ditto my UQ! That tells you how busy I am 

Paul Stephenson posted:

I think you will if you play her the sound difference

If only that was so my life would be so much easier!  The differences in sound quality are completely lost on my better half, she really just doesn't 'get' it...

Having the two systems in the house is great, as it always reminds just how good the Naim sound is when I play my favourite music through it. Tidal is sounding particularly great through it of late and all instabilities seem to have been resolved so I am using it more and more 

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

Tonym - thank you for your kind welcome on my return

my last posting was probably nearly two years ago when I was pondering record cleaning machines - but I got sort of sidetracked into an expensive coffee habit instead as my 50th birthday present, and then got mega busy with work. Still undecided on vinyl - time will tell

Am starting to ponder what my next upgrade might be - NDS (replace ND5XS) or speakers. I have got my acoustic energy ae1 speakers back from my brother after about 7 years so will try them out first. But the ND5XS is broken and I am so busy I cannot find the time to return it to be fixed. Ditto my UQ! That tells you how busy I am 

Change the speakers? Surely not!

Hungryhalibut posted:

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

stuff 

 

Change the speakers? Surely not!

Maybe, maybe no! Who can tell?

anyone know what it sounds like?

Also, if these Mu-so products are so good why would anyone spend 6x the amount to buy a superuniti ?

I'd have a QB in my bedroom. Even though I could get better sound with a 'proper' all in one I wouldn't want to have a Superuniti, and speaker cables and a set of speakers, perhaps with stands, in my bedroom.  On the other hand, if I wanted good quality music in my living room I may, perhaps, be happier with somethink like the Superuniti.  Horses for courses really.  You could equally say, if the Superuniti is so good why are people spending huge amounts more on a Statement

If we're saying that 'Naim' - the brand say it's possible to re-produce music faithfully using a 595 pound product then why for years was there entry price point in the multiples of thousands - because they decided to re-produce hi-fi faithfully to a very high standard and not to dick around against NAD 3020's.

I think Naim are simply going into the mass market because of the 'focal' pressure. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.....

I'll stick with my superuniti and if I want another system for the bedroom I'll buy another SU.

tonym182 posted:

anyone know what it sounds like?

Also, if these Mu-so products are so good why would anyone spend 6x the amount to buy a superuniti ?

Actually, more like 10x when you include speakers.

In any case, I have a Mu-so and a Superuniti.  The SU sounds a lot better but the Mu-so is in a location where I would not be able to put a full system.

tonym182 posted:

anyone know what it sounds like?

Also, if these Mu-so products are so good why would anyone spend 6x the amount to buy a superuniti ?

If its any interest both What HiFi and AVForums have published reviews and both say its excellent.

However it is what it is.  A SuperUniti and a pair of matched bookshelf speakers is going to sound better, but in many situations that isn't needed or even wanted. I know you have a differing view ... but MuSo doesn't dilute Naim's brand, it makes it stronger.  If you want a pure Naim sound, then why do you accept them selling anything other than the Statement amplifier and NDS and CD555?! You say if you want a second room you'll buy another SuperUniti ... you philistine accepting diluted Naim branding ... don't you know how rubbish Naim have been since they developed the Uniti ... nothings the same since the Classic series ... hell the XS range is a bit of a step too far don't you think?

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but for those people who don't have space for the silk purse, or just don't want a silk purse, what is wrong with making the best sow's ear purse possible!

Anyway I think the discussion over should Naim make the MuSo is pretty pointless ... they have made it and given the success they are not going to stop making it.  If you don't like it then don't buy one.

"the 'focal' pressure. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear....."

Tony could not be further from the truth, these projects have brought thousands of new customers to the naim brand- many have and will buy other naim products after discovering naim, and also do not forget the tech, r&d  used in these projects has to be funded and is  needed in classic range separates.