Mu-so Qb

hafler3o posted:

robert- posted:

... I quickly lost interest in it when I seen it's price but that doesn't mean I can't talk about it.

I tend to not bother commenting on stuff I'm not interested in. What does interest me is the reaction of people to change. This product is more relevant as a purchase to current and new 'Naimees' than Statement, but does not have the cachet, we cannot bask in it's reflected glory. I say 'get over it'.

Get over what?

Hi Jon H,

Can you confirm whether wireless on the Qb is b/g or better? There's no mention of this from what I can see on the Qb page on the Naim web site.

Given the size of the Qb and tha fact that it will fit into far more places than existing streamers or the existing Mu-so, I would guess that a lot more Qb's will be run wirelessly than over Ethernet. A lot of people here are already talking about Qb as a bedroom/bedside table device -- I wonder how many have Cat5 to their bedside? Qb is also eminently portable arond the house and even outside, making wireless connection even more likely. I'd say that great wireless performance that isn't already "legacy" is pretty important for such a device.

Adrian

Alba1320 posted:

intothevoid posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Yes the only public announcement. 

oh, you tease 

Yes, I did wonder about that!

No need to wonder for long  - Naim may throw a crumb to this village fete affair across the pond but as ever they are quite rightly saving the best for the more important upcoming event - Bristol! 

Fred I can see why you would choose to use this product in your toilet judging by most of your recent posts, of course we care about sound, why did we spend so much time on statement, super lumina, 272, dr upgrades, dac code updates, etc etc I really wonder why you hang out here, status  maybe should change to troll plus.

rackkit posted:

fred40 posted:

Yes. But we have to face the fact that Naim is not a high-end brand anymore. The exclusivity is gone. Naim is becomming a Household name, a mainstream product.Like there are hundreds seen on the shelfs. Most Naimies seem to welcome this for whatever reason.

Why does it matter if they do become a household name? Does it affect your existing gear if your next door neighbour buys a Mu-so and few Mu-so Qbs to scatter around the house? 

I've scrimped and saved for years to own a 7 'high end' Naim black boxes, 2 pairs of speakers and subwoofer! I think it's great that they're now doing these all in one units as i've been after decent sound quality elsewhere in the house (Kitchen). Before the Mu-so Qb nothing they had would fit but this does. It doesn't threaten the rest of my gear but compliments it. 

I really don't see what the problem is here.

 

rackkit, I think that fred40 has in fact a very good point.

Of course, it does not affect me directly if my neighbours buy a Mu-so (although, now that I think about it, it coud in fact affect me quite badly: at the moment I can hardly hear them but, with a new toy in their kitchen, who knows ...)

But this is not the point. What is under discussion here is not whether the Muso range is going to be directly beneficial or detrimental to me or to you or to our neighbours.

What is under discussion is a decision, by Naim, to further develop a range of products which is well outside the focus that has, so far, shaped and informed the perception of Naim as a brand.

I think that it is legitimate to raise doubts as to whether this is a sensible decision. There are many examples of companies that, by expanding (or trying to expand) beyond their original focus and niche market, have lost part of their identity and appeal and eventually failed.

Another reason why the decision to further develop the Mu-so range could be criticized is that it could be seen to set false priorities. Naim is already struggling to properly support its original range of products, think for instance of the server family or of their software and firmware products. One could possibly argue that they had better invested time and resources in improving their core-market products.

I do not know whether it was a good or a bad idea for Naim to further develop the Mu-so range. The only interest that I have in a cheap streamer is for testing the Naim app. But I see good reasons for arguing against such decision.

I always thought that Naim's mission was to bring great music reproduction into people's lives, and ultimately the more the merrier; success puts money back into R&D, which benefits everyone - witness The Statement, benefits from which are trickling down the range, even down to the Mu-So.

If Mu-So and it's various offshoots means that more people begin to appreciate great sound reproduction, start to wonder about Naim and high performance hifi in general, that's got to be a good thing.  If it means that more people start to demand better sound at all levels, that's a win for everyone.  I'm not saying that the Mu-So will do this alone overnight, but it's a very positive step all the same.

GraemeH posted:

It's all relative. What we 'audiophiles' regard as exclusive might be a multi-box separates system costing more than the family car. The buyer of an average 'family stereo' might well consider these neatly designed multi-coloured cubes at £600 quite exclusive too.

The vanity of small differences and all that.

G

Well, my understanding of "exclusivity" has nothing to do with costs and prices. I might be wrong (I am not a native English speaker) but I thought that exclusive and affordable are quite different notions. Best, nbpf

nbpf posted:

GraemeH posted:

It's all relative. What we 'audiophiles' regard as exclusive might be a multi-box separates system costing more than the family car. The buyer of an average 'family stereo' might well consider these neatly designed multi-coloured cubes at £600 quite exclusive too.

The vanity of small differences and all that.

G

Well, my understanding of "exclusivity" has nothing to do with costs and prices. I might be wrong (I am not a native English speaker) but I thought that exclusive and affordable are quite different notions. Best, nbpf

Yes, I see where you are coming from. That was my point £1000's can be just as 'exclusive' as £100's in the right context - I do think they are inextricably linked however.

G

nbpf posted:

rackkit posted:

fred40 posted:

Yes. But we have to face the fact that Naim is not a high-end brand anymore. The exclusivity is gone. Naim is becomming a Household name, a mainstream product.Like there are hundreds seen on the shelfs. Most Naimies seem to welcome this for whatever reason.

Why does it matter if they do become a household name? Does it affect your existing gear if your next door neighbour buys a Mu-so and few Mu-so Qbs to scatter around the house? 

I've scrimped and saved for years to own a 7 'high end' Naim black boxes, 2 pairs of speakers and subwoofer! I think it's great that they're now doing these all in one units as i've been after decent sound quality elsewhere in the house (Kitchen). Before the Mu-so Qb nothing they had would fit but this does. It doesn't threaten the rest of my gear but compliments it. 

I really don't see what the problem is here.

 

rackkit, I think that fred40 has in fact a very good point.

Of course, it does not affect me directly if my neighbours buy a Mu-so (although, now that I think about it, it coud in fact affect me quite badly: at the moment I can hardly hear them but, with a new toy in their kitchen, who knows ...)

But this is not the point. What is under discussion here is not whether the Muso range is going to be directly beneficial or detrimental to me or to you or to our neighbours.

What is under discussion is a decision, by Naim, to further develop a range of products which is well outside the focus that has, so far, shaped and informed the perception of Naim as a brand.

I think that it is legitimate to raise doubts as to whether this is a sensible decision. There are many examples of companies that, by expanding (or trying to expand) beyond their original focus and niche market, have lost part of their identity and appeal and eventually failed.

Another reason why the decision to further develop the Mu-so range could be criticized is that it could be seen to set false priorities. Naim is already struggling to properly support its original range of products, think for instance of the server family or of their software and firmware products. One could possibly argue that they had better invested time and resources in improving their core-market products.

I do not know whether it was a good or a bad idea for Naim to further develop the Mu-so range. The only interest that I have in a cheap streamer is for testing the Naim app. But I see good reasons for arguing against such decision.

Thanks for posting this. It exactly reflects my feelings.

tonym posted:

Oh dear, there are some awful snobs on here. Anyway, I think it's disgusting, I mean it'd be better if Naim just stuck to the posh, expensive stuff wot only us filthy rich can enjoy, then when they go bust we can crow on and on about how exclusive our kit is and what a great pity Naim's disappeared. It was one of the few truly great hi-fi companies, don't you know?

 

Pip, Pip!

Again, I am not a native English speaker but it seems to me that you are mixing up exclusivity and affordability. I do not think exclusivity has anything to do with high prices and that's how I have understood fred40's original post.

I do not think anyone is disturbed by Naim announcing a more affordable line of products! But I can understand that some might be concerned if such products would turn out to be less exclusive. Exclusivity also has very little to do with snobism, I think. Again, I might be wrong, of course.

I'm looking for a decent wireless speaker to stream internet radio from the iPad rather than using my Pure radio via Bluetooth.

I thought I'd narrowed it down to to Beolit 15 / Zeppelin wireless ( muso was too big/expensive for the application needed).

Now along comes the Qb! If it sounds as good or better than my shortlist I may pull the trigger.

I've read all the press stuff but so far can't find any comments on the actual sound. I presume it's on dem at CES?

Personally I think this is what size/shape Muso should have been first time round. I often thought of purchasing a Muso but the size and shape put me off because of where I planned to place one. This new qb fits the bill for me more so than the original Muso.

I think it looks rather neater than Muso 1 IMO.

robert- posted:

Now that the chinese are manufacturing for naim, you will see more lifestyle products as nearly everything is made in China.

So when the headphones appear those will be made in the same factory as the likes of b&w, beats, Job's, jbl etc, but will have the naim branding added at the end. 

Well they won't be made in the same factory as build B&W Group products as they are large enough to have their own factory out there.  They have the same quality control regime as they did in their UK factories.  I think JBL are in a similar position being part of the Harmon group.

Chinese doesn't mean bad quality - though I can quite respect those who wish to buy British built in order to support British workers.

Exclusive  - comes from exclude. I e only a few people have it. Often caused by cost, sometimes deliberately in order to keep just a small band of people able to participate in something. The snobbish aspect is the often parallel view that the rif-rag must be kept out.

i don't believe that is Naim's philosophy in any shape or form, but some of the comments on here have sounded as if some individuals may feel that way.

Paul Stephenson posted:

Fred I can see why you would choose to use this product in your toilet judging by most of your recent posts, of course we care about sound, why did we spend so much time on statement, super lumina, 272, dr upgrades, dac code updates, etc etc I really wonder why you hang out here, status  maybe should change to troll plus.

Wow!

Have I missed something?

SJB

robert- posted:

Ha ha, typical repetitive boring response, do you even read any posts.

And about the religion thing, naim is seen as a cult to the outside world.

fred40 posted:

Seems to me that most Naimies have no concerns about the sound but rather will it fit in my cupboard! Kind off funny.

With due respect ... it is starting to feel you have both moved from being critical of Naim and a product they have produced (and questioning the direction of the company) to being insulting to individuals and members of the forum generally.  

As many have said ... if you don't like the product don't buy it.  There are many reasons why people will like this product as many like competing brands.  If they suit you more buy them - but there is no need to insult people who do feel this may suit a particular situation they have.

I think the likes of FRED40 haven't even began to understand what the Naim badge really means on a product.

It was never about money, cost or exclusivity, made in UK, made in China.

It was, and is, and hopefully forever will remain, about the musicality of the product and its ability to extract music and emotion from the recording. This was always down to the fantastic timing ability of the Naim components, starting from the amp, then speaker then source.

Whether it is a Muso, or a 202/200 or a statement, what does it matter?

My own brother and sister own a japanese amp with a rather large speakers, but although their system in terms of bass and treble will probably sound better than the Mu-so, it won't be able to time better, or extract the musical message, or be as enjoyable. Anyway I will ask them to have a listen to it, and they can decide for themselves. I always felt that I could not encourage them to buy even a UQ2 with Neat Iotas as this was beyond what they were willing to spend, but with Muso QB this changes.

The likes of FRED40 seem to be amazingly tone deaf, as to not be able to understand that it was always about the musicality.

kaydee6 posted:

It seems like there are many here listen to music in the kitchen. My impression is muso are all kitchen hifi..

I think the review Chris Connaker over on ComputerAudiophile dot com did was very interesting.  He is in the situation of being a family man and has a high end audio system in a dedicated listening room.  So was the MuSo competition to that ... no of course not.  What he did find though (and I'm paraphrasing of course) was that it brought good quality music into his house in the living room for him to enjoy with his family.

Sounds like a good reason for a MuSo to me...

Sorry about that. Not my intention but sometimes I shout to much. I know. Sorry again.

Bananahead posted:

kaydee6 posted:

It seems like there are many here listen to music in the kitchen. My impression is muso are all kitchen hifi..

Lot's of people like to keep their wives happy it seems..................................

I'm the chef in the house! 

I have to turn the main system up in the next room to hear it in the kitchen over the din of the hob fan but that means blasting out the neighbours. 

analogmusic posted:

 

My own brother and sister own a japanese amp with a rather large speakers, but although their system in terms of bass and treble will probably sound better than the Mu-so, it won't be able to time better, or extract the musical message, or be as enjoyable. Anyway I will ask them to have a listen to it, and they can decide for themselves. I always felt that I could not encourage them to buy even a UQ2 with Neat Iotas as this was beyond what they were willing to spend, but with Muso QB this changes.

The likes of FRED40 seem to be amazingly tone deaf, as to not be able to understand that it was always about the musicality.

 

Whilst it might not 'time' as well, that doesn't mean their system can't/won't be more enjoyable (to them) than the Muso - it depends on what aspects of the sound of music most triggers their enjoyment.

Eloise posted:

robert- posted:

Ha ha, typical repetitive boring response, do you even read any posts.

And about the religion thing, naim is seen as a cult to the outside world.

fred40 posted:

Seems to me that most Naimies have no concerns about the sound but rather will it fit in my cupboard! Kind off funny.

With due respect ... it is starting to feel you have both moved from being critical of Naim and a product they have produced (and questioning the direction of the company) to being insulting to individuals and members of the forum generally.  

As many have said ... if you don't like the product don't buy it.  There are many reasons why people will like this product as many like competing brands.  If they suit you more buy them - but there is no need to insult people who do feel this may suit a particular situation they have.

Yes i agree about the insulting part i was verbally insulted so that was my response.

Also I won't be buying either naim or another sonos so please stop telling me to buy one.

GraemeH posted:

nbpf posted:

GraemeH posted:

It's all relative. What we 'audiophiles' regard as exclusive might be a multi-box separates system costing more than the family car. The buyer of an average 'family stereo' might well consider these neatly designed multi-coloured cubes at £600 quite exclusive too.

The vanity of small differences and all that.

G

Well, my understanding of "exclusivity" has nothing to do with costs and prices. I might be wrong (I am not a native English speaker) but I thought that exclusive and affordable are quite different notions. Best, nbpf

Yes, I see where you are coming from. That was my point £1000's can be just as 'exclusive' as £100's in the right context - I do think they are inextricably linked however.

G

Well, for me the typical example of what is exclusive is knowledge. I think of something exclusive as of something that can only be achieved through care and dedication. In contrast, I consider "cheap" what one can obtain by just spending money. Cheap things can be terribly expensive and exclusive ones very affordable but also the other way round, of course! Best, nbpf 

I like to apologize to anyone I have have wrongly accused ( especially the people at Naim) It"s just I have very strong feelings about Naim. I can"t help it. And yes maybe I"m funny that way. I was thinking buying me  a Statement but the only thing keeping me back is the new logo! How stupid can I get!

Naim is a business, and as such its directors have a statutory duty to ensure its success and profitability. It doesn't take much thought to realise they needed to expand away from their traditional markets if they were to fulfill this obligation. The long-term support Naim have always offered continues to be available, and will be there for as long as it benefits the company, either directly from income or indirectly from its traditional reputation. All the time Naim continues to do the right thing and expand, the benefits of Naim ownership will continue to be available.