mu-so constant drop out only when I use the Naim app??

Does the issue persist on both iOS devices? Tricky one, as initial thoughts would be the router not propagating, or maintaining a Bonjour connection,

Hi Richard

Yes it happens on both devices. I'll need to check into the bonjour connection to see if this is causing an issue. Will report back in the morning!

Many thanks

Ok, so I have done lots of jigging about today. Primarily I have turned off the wifi on the BT Homehub and directed all traffic through the Time Capsule 2.4ghz. Music was streaming through the Naim app for an hour or so without a dropout then it went wrong! Couldn't listen to a single track without many dropouts. Switched directly to the Tidal app, playing the same playlists and its been streaming perfectly for the last 3 hours. If It was a bonjour issue I would have thought that it would be affected using either the Naim app or Tidal? I may need to buy a bonjour monitor if it would help

BTW. I fixed the audio sync from the TV, Turns out its only happening when using the onboard freesat tuners. I changed the audio delay and the issue has disappeared

Thanks

Hi Paul,

In a strange turn of events, my Mu-so refused to power on, and was promptly replaced by the vendor. The brand new replacement exhibits exactly the behavior you describe above, something the original machine did not. 

The only difference in set up this time, is that the Mu-so is now hardwired to the router (room layout has changed), the original was set up for WiFi connection via iOS. I agree if the issue was related to Bonjour, I would expect it to manifest across both Apps, and the fact that it maintains a connection via AirPlay suggests the fault doesn't lie there. 

I'll remove the ethernet tonight, and test with a WiFi connection. I streamed music seamlessly for a good 7 hours yesterday via Vox & iTunes on the Mac, and directly via the Tidal App proper. So connection maintained on the 2.4ghz and 5ghz bands. 

I'll let you know how I get on. 

Richard

Hi

Had the same problem with drop outs on Tidal with Naim app on Muso, maybe the WIFI on Muso is a weal spot.

After hard wiring an Airport Express as an extension  to the Muso it got better, but not consistent.

If I stream the Tidal IOS app to the Muso via Airplay with iphone, ipad or imac it never drops out. 

Yesterday I connected a Chord Hugo to the optical out of the Airport Express and wired the Hugo to the 3.5 analog in of the Muso.                             It was a breathtaking experience even though its a rather unconventional approach. Soundquality is probably the best you can ever get out of a Muso. Its unbelievable what a Muso can sound like even with this 16/44 limited set up. 

ATB   Jorg from Zurich

Hi Richard

Glad to hear that you have got the replacement but not so good that you now have the same issue as me! I spoke with technical support yesterday, They advised that I remove the Naim app, reset the iOS device then reinstall. I did this however it was still the same. They then recommended that I reset the mu-so. This had no effect either. I'm thinking that there is an issue between the Naim app and Tidal integration, as I'm having zero drop outs using the Tidal app as a standalone, and the same if I airplay from MBP and iMac

I'll wait to see what your results are with wifi.

Thanks

Paul

Hey Jorg,

You seem to experience the same issue reported by Paul (and latterly, myself). The issue almost certainly only affects streaming via the naim App & Tidal within. I'm going to check which ports are open tonight, and make sure all required ports are working. 

As for the Hugo, I'm afraid that's an expensive extravagance I'm unlikely to experience, but will take your word for the increased SQ. In the interim, I'm stuck with getting the basics right first and foremost. 

Regards

Richard.

Thanks for the reply Jorg

It seems we are not alone with this. Technical said they have no known issues for this! 

Interesting setup and well worth it for the quality output. I'll be happy with no drop outs in favour of quality right now!

Cheers

Hi Paul and Richard

Very understandable to make it work first before looking at quality. We think the WIFI on Muso is just dodgy. We did not feel like putting additional 50 meters of cat cable into the house to solve the issue. That way I use an Airport Express hardwired to the Muso to generate a reliable network connection, which even streams high resolution via UPNP from the imac.

This is working fine for airplay, I-radio stations, Spotify, UPNP but not for the Naim integrated Tidal app, it still drops out and mostly when I have guests. To me it does not make any difference to go directly from OSX or IOS Tidal apps via airplay, its just much more reliable and less embarrassing with friends over.

We believe there are two challenges, Tidal/Naim app integration and a weak WIFI connection, for which Naim should present an update, specially for folks who do not have an electronic engineering degree and just want to plug and play. 

ATB Jorg

Jorg/Paul,

I'm not wholly convinced this is related to a poor WiFi network. The issue occurs on WiFi and when hardwired via ethernet, which should provide a stable platform. As the issue is specific to Tidal within the naim App, the root cause lies there, somewhere. 

The main ports required for Bonjour activity are 5350, 5351, and 5353 (the last one is specific to AirPlay). I'll tinker around tonight and make sure all these ports are open and working okay. I've checked the Diags & Usage Data logs on iOS (Settings > Privacy > Diags & Usage > Diags and Usage Data) but there doesn't appear to be anything listed related to the naim App, or Bonjour?

I wouldn't expect Apple Technical Support to get involved, as the issue is with a third party App, and would usually direct this kind of query to the App Developer. In this case, that is naim themselves, who appear to have developed the App "in house". 

I'll let you know how I get on in any case. 

Regards

Richard.

Nooner posted:

Hi Paul and Richard

Very understandable to make it work first before looking at quality. We think the WIFI on Muso is just dodgy. We did not feel like putting additional 50 meters of cat cable into the house to solve the issue. That way I use an Airport Express hardwired to the Muso to generate a reliable network connection, which even streams high resolution via UPNP from the imac.

This is working fine for airplay, I-radio stations, Spotify, UPNP but not for the Naim integrated Tidal app, it still drops out and mostly when I have guests. To me it does not make any difference to go directly from OSX or IOS Tidal apps via airplay, its just much more reliable and less embarrassing with friends over.

We believe there are two challenges, Tidal/Naim app integration and a weak WIFI connection, for which Naim should present an update, specially for folks who do not have an electronic engineering degree and just want to plug and play. 

ATB Jorg

My experience is similar to yours - my Superuniti was incapable of performing over a robust WiFi network. As soon as I connected it to an Airport Express, the problem was solved. However, when people report that Tidal works through the Tidal app, but not through the Naim app, I think that is a separate issue. 

seems like somebody at Naim did not like my last reply.... very poor

Well, the plot thickens.

The Bonjour and AirPlay port 5353 checked out okay. I have already deleted the App and re-installed. Restored the iOS and set up "as new" then re-installed the naim App directly from the App Store. 

In the interests of diligence, I ran a speed and latency test too, and though not quite what was promised by the ISP, still adequate. I ran a packet trace, also okay, if not superfluous. 

I read somewhere that the AirPlay/Bonjour connection is on port 6000 for audio data > Sender > Receiver, so attempted to check this too, without much luck though I'm afraid. 

I also ran a sysdiagnose on the iPhone (running iOS 9.2), and am able to collect the logs from ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/MobileDevice/"name of device"/DiagLogs/SysDiags - but these are only of use if I had a degree in coding, or for submission to Apple, neither of which I have or know Apple will entertain (being third party App). 

However, I successfully streamed via the naim/Tidal option successfully for a couple of hours, when testing ended. The C Duncan album, Architect sounding pretty darn good!

Not sure where this leaves us. I don't want the service to be intermittent, and whilst I appreciate this is a first world problem, I would like to be able to rely on the service on offer without having to spend my evenings troubleshooting and isolating the problem myself. 

Anyhow, over to you Paul and Jorg, I'm at a loss. 

Regards

Richard. 

As an aside, following that last post, I took everything back to factory settings, re-installing operating systems where possible, and resetting the Mu-so; and was able to stream King Creosote & Jon Hopkins' - Diamond Mine in full and without error!

I'll continue to test and monitor and let you know if anything changes. In there meantime, I'll start saving for the Hugo!

Good to hear Richard

the good thing of the Hugo is its size. If my wife knew how much that little "headphone amp" costs she would probably sent me to a mental hospital. Together with a good set of cans and an USB adapter it can also make an iphone, ipad really magic and very entertaining on long travel. Chord launched the Mojo wich I have not heard yet. Some say its just as good as Hugo, just for a lot less money.

ATB Jorg

I have just noticed this post. To theOP, the Tidal play breakup has almost certainly  nothing to with ports or Bonjour/UPnP discovery etc. The Naim TCP stack has been optimised for local UPnP and local Naim network connections for best SQ, this has unfortunately exposed issues with Tidal connectivity to do mainly with latency and TCP windowing and sequencing dynamics. Apple will almost certainly use different TCP parameters to Naim.  The good news is a new firmware is in beta and development that addresses this and is not far from release. Although I am only familiar with streamer version I believe there will be a Muso version too at some point.

Simon

Simon

really good news, specially for entrance level really important.

ATB Jorg

Hi Richard

Thanks for fully documenting your testing. I've not been able to do any myself as I'm working away from home this week.

@Simon-In-Suffolk Your explanation would seem to be correct and good news if a new firmware is on the way. I'll wait and see what that brings. It's sometimes frustrating when you spend time on the phone to support and they ask you to do all sorts of re-setting etc and tell you there re no known issues when actually they are fully aware and in a beta testing phase! If they had told me that I would have happily waited. Many thanks for replying

If anything dramatically changes and my dropouts disappear I'll post back here......I'll check out C Duncan album!

Cheers

Likewise,  

Many thanks to all for the input. 

Regards,

Richard. 

Paul, I am sure Naim want to rule out all the other issues that they will be very familiar with.

Simon