Naim System based On Mac Mini

andyharc posted:

I have about 200GB of FLAC at the moment..  I have been listening for the last few hours  They are significantly better then the MP3's.  Now how much better would a DAC make it????   

Will depend  on the DAC... I haven't compared the standard soundcard output of the MM so can't comment directly, however as I mentioned in an earlier post, going to the extent I have with Hugo and a USB/SPDIF isolator/converter has achieved higher sound quality than ND5XS with XP5XS.

does CD5x have a digital input by any chance? If so you could get a suitable isolator/converter and feed the usb output from Audirvana into its DAC.

Unfortunately I do not believe the CD5X has a digital output...

My first foray into computer audio was with a Macbook, first directly into an analogue preamp, which sounded very poor, then via a cheap DAC, which improved things quite a bit, but still sounded crap compared to my LP12. Then I thought, oh, sod it, went to a Naim dealer, and came home with a Superuniti. Oh yes, and a Unitiserve, which is almost cheating.

If I was in your position, given that you have a decent preamp, I'd sell the CD player, go to a dealer, and ask them to let you listen to a DAC or two, and a streamer, and take it from there. Then ditch those nasty MP3s where you still have the original CD and rip them in lossless to a NAS or your Mac. 

FWIW I've just set up a Mac Mini (bought used off eBay for £250) for DAC reviewing, and I'm currently using it through a Chord Mojo into my system, controlled using screen sharing from my MacBook Air. It's surprisingly good, if not NDS/555 PS good, and I'm looking forward to having a play with some optimisation, widgets like the AQ Jitterbug and so on, when time allows.

ChrisSU posted:

My first foray into computer audio was with a Macbook, first directly into an analogue preamp, which sounded very poor, then via a cheap DAC, which improved things quite a bit, but still sounded crap compared to my LP12. Then I thought, oh, sod it, went to a Naim dealer, and came home with a Superuniti. Oh yes, and a Unitiserve, which is almost cheating.

If I was in your position, given that you have a decent preamp, I'd sell the CD player, go to a dealer, and ask them to let you listen to a DAC or two, and a streamer, and take it from there. Then ditch those nasty MP3s where you still have the original CD and rip them in lossless to a NAS or your Mac. 

 

And on the other hand, given that the OP already has MM and Audirvana, I would commend something like I described, which I found to be better value for money a however, it does very much depend on the available budget, and the sound quality he is after, which only he can decide.

Innocent Bystander posted:

ChrisSU posted:

My first foray into computer audio was with a Macbook, first directly into an analogue preamp, which sounded very poor, then via a cheap DAC, which improved things quite a bit, but still sounded crap compared to my LP12. Then I thought, oh, sod it, went to a Naim dealer, and came home with a Superuniti. Oh yes, and a Unitiserve, which is almost cheating.

If I was in your position, given that you have a decent preamp, I'd sell the CD player, go to a dealer, and ask them to let you listen to a DAC or two, and a streamer, and take it from there. Then ditch those nasty MP3s where you still have the original CD and rip them in lossless to a NAS or your Mac. 

 

And on the other hand, given that the OP already has MM and Audirvana, I would commend something like I described, which I found to be better value for money a however, it does very much depend on the available budget, and the sound quality he is after, which only he can decide.

I'm certainly not suggesting that the OP should rule out the Mac & DAC route at this stage, especially as he has a Mac Mini already. Just that at some stage, you have to move on from listening to other people's advice, get yourself to a dealer, and start listening for yourself.

No prob sat all with that.

Computers are inherently incredibly electrically noisy devices, and DACs are potentially very sensitive, so I reckon that if you want to use a mac or pc with a DAC then either your DAC should be galvanically isolated or you should use a box like the Intona USB isolator to achieve a similar goal.  The DAC V1 and a Hugo TT are galvanically isolated, a straight Hugo isn't.  Elsewhere, Rob Watts has said that the Intona "looks like an interesting and useful device." There are other isolators available, but afaik none support USB 2.0..

If you want USB isolation, I can recommend an iFi supply. I use one in the MM/iFi/Chord QBD76HDSD DAC I use in my main system. I also use a Macbook Pro in our holiday home, USB into a V1, and that sounds really good also. I tried using a USB/SPDIF (optical) feed into the V1 but the straight USB sounds a bit better.

Re isolation, the Gustard U12 USB/SPDIF convertor is USB 2.0, handles up to 384khz 32bit, and in my experience works perfectly to link the Mac Mini USB output from Audirvana (bit perfect), into the electrical SPDIF input of the Hugo which Rob Watts of Chord has stated gives best sound. It also has optical, AES/EBU and IIS outputs which might be relevant if considering a different DAC. 

I have no vested interest in Gustard, but it seems to be a little known product so as I have found it works for me in the context I've already described, it seems worth letting others know - but if you have a chance for comparison, that is obviously best.

fwiw, I'm pretty sure that Rob has said that he prefers the optical input of the Hugo, not the electrical one, because the optical input is galvanically isolated and the electrical input isn't. He has also said that the  USB input is marginally the best on the TT and Dave because they are galvanically isolated. So, whether the USB to spdif optical converter route or an Intona type isolator gives the best result on a Hugo I agree you would need to decide by listening.  

True - but if you have a galvanically isolated source then it is best not to have source and sink both galvanically isolated as you will get an averaging RMS effect on the transport ... Either way I find the NDX with its galvanically isolated SPDIF output absolutely stellar with the Hugo. For me using a quality Naim transport using SPDIF I have yet to hear it bettered with another source/transport on the Hugo - though the Optical is certainly not bad.

Remember galvanic isolation prevents earth loops as opposed to other nasties.

likesmusic posted:

fwiw, I'm pretty sure that Rob has said that he prefers the optical input of the Hugo, not the electrical one, because the optical input is galvanically isolated and the electrical input isn't. He has also said that the  USB input is marginally the best on the TT and Dave because they are galvanically isolated. So, whether the USB to spdif optical converter route or an Intona type isolator gives the best result on a Hugo I agree you would need to decide by listening.  

 

Hmmm, possible I misremembered, though certainly the way I am using the MM-Gustard-Hugo gives great sound (see above) - however, as the Gustard has optical output that option is there, so I shall have a go with that.

Andrew Everard posted:

FWIW I've just set up a Mac Mini (bought used off eBay for £250) for DAC reviewing, and I'm currently using it through a Chord Mojo into my system, controlled using screen sharing from my MacBook Air. It's surprisingly good, if not NDS/555 PS good, and I'm looking forward to having a play with some optimisation, widgets like the AQ Jitterbug and so on, when time allows.

Very interesting Andrew. I didn't realise that the Mojo would be punching so high! Which software were you using on the Mac Mini? Which inputs were you using?

likesmusic posted:

Computers are inherently incredibly electrically noisy devices, and DACs are potentially very sensitive, so I reckon that if you want to use a mac or pc with a DAC then either your DAC should be galvanically isolated or you should use a box like the Intona USB isolator to achieve a similar goal.  The DAC V1 and a Hugo TT are galvanically isolated, a straight Hugo isn't.  Elsewhere, Rob Watts has said that the Intona "looks like an interesting and useful device." There are other isolators available, but afaik none support USB 2.0..

FWIW, I prefered the Hugo over the 2Qute via USB despite the 2Qute having a galvanically isolated input. I know they're different DAC's but I would have expected the 2Qute to have the edge.

Wow.   I was just hoping to easily connect a DAC.   I think I am not as critical when it comes to sound quality as most of the individuals on the forum.

andyharc posted:

Wow.   I was just hoping to easily connect a DAC.   I think I am not as critical when it comes to sound quality as most of the individuals on the forum.

You can - you're using Audivarna on the mini which is a great start. Just get yourself a decent USB DAC and you'll be sorted. You can optimise later with better USB cables and the like. Don't get too concerned with all of the fiddling about mentioned above at the moment though as the biggest improvement will be adding a DAC rather than using the audio output from the Mac. 

Yes, that's one advantage of going for this as your source, in that you can improve it in stages if you want - or not if you don't feel the urge - and yet reach a very high quality sound with possibly only a change of DAC if you went for a relatively budget one now. 

Would I have an issue placing the DAC. Say 15 feet or so away from the MAC MINI?   I would prefer it with the rest of the system rather then on the desk with the computer.  

Thanks

I think the longest you can have a USB cable without  is 5m (~16ft), so 15 ft should be ok. If the cable length is longer you can get an active cable with a 'repeater' built in. If you subsequently go for a USB/spdif convertor/isolator, it would be best at the amp end rather than the computer end.

well audirvana gets mentioned here a lot however jriver seems ignored though a good soft player too.

sharik posted:

 

well audirvana gets mentioned here a lot however jriver seems ignored though a good soft player too.

 

Feel free to mention! 

I use usb from mac mini into hugo tt and it's superb. i very much doubt i would hear any difference in blind listening tests if it was 3ft or 5m away... use your common sense, put mac on different shelf as far away as posssible, use quality cables, and keep cables away from each other. no worries at all.

i just bought tripp-lite usb cable (u023-003) from digikey for a couple of quid - ferrite at each end, shielded, usb certified, gold plated connectors. high quality, reliable for 32-bit/384kHz bit perfect, and noise free. i dont buy into expensive usb cables.

sharik posted:

 

which one is best in terms of sound quality, mac mini or macbook pro?

 

On my system, into a Hugo, the Mac Mini by a way.  I also use a usb regen which further improved the sound and quality cables.  With a MM and Audirvana the obvious first step here is to put a decent dac in place.  There are loads around but the new Chord seems like an obvious budget option to me as a start point.

sharik posted:

 

which one is best in terms of sound quality, mac mini or macbook pro?

 

they should sound exactly the same if using usb 2 output to dac. perhaps one emits more RFI than the other which might explain any sonic differences. btw use usb 2 if possible as usb 3 has known RFI issues.