The Great Rock and Roll Swindle

Halloween Man posted:

My thoughts are, as with most things, there is a little bit of truth in everything...

Pretty woolly thinking.

Perhaps.

Some cables are better than others. Just because one is more expensive than the other does not mean it's better. Saying that materials such as copper, silver, gold, and Teflon cost more money (but not £1000s more). My conclusion is a decent cable will cost more but should not be Mr Silly money.

I do not believe all power amps sound the same as manufacturers can introduce their own sonic attributes, such as lower noise. However, if all things were equal the tests and arguments from respected engineers are pretty compelling.

Naim are a great company selling great products. A recent house move with a larger room has got me looking at upgrade options. I'd like to try a NAP 250 DR but I've read on this forum and elsewhere that I should really only connect a Naim preamp, Naim speaker cable, and Naim interconnects. The costs add up significantly enough for me look elsewhere. I already own a preamp (Hugo TT), speaker cable (Chord Odyssey Install, 12 AWG), and interconnects (Sommer EMC-QUAD XLR) that do not require upgrading.

Finally, recently compared optical output with USB on my DAC. At first I could have sworn that optical sounded better, I was convinced. I then asked my wife to help me with a blind listening test. Could I tell the difference? No, not a chance, and neither could she.

So there you go, my more specific thoughts.

Halloween Man,

For cables the cost isn't usually materials, it's development costs (one hopes) and "Willingness to Pay".

Power amps influence the speakers, but are in turn also themselves influenced by the load that the speakers present.  Change the speakers and you change the load on the amp and hence change electrical signal at the output terminals.  The 'sound' of a power amp is the sound of the combination of the power amp and it's load (i.e. the speakers).

In all systems there are electrical interfaces between components.  Classic series Naim amps, for instance, require more than 3.5μH serial inductance in their load to ensure stability.  Similarly the system has to be bandwidth limited at some point; Naim choose to do this in the pre-amp as they believe that solution sounds best (I found the same when I was designing amps).  You can use a Naim power amp with another type of pre-amp, but Naim won't guarantee it.  If that pre-amp pushes inappropriate signals into the power amp, then who is to blame for it going wrong (clue: it's not Naim!).  Naim can't be expected to test all their power amps with all the pre-amps that are available in the market!

Naim's recommendations are there for good engineering reasons.  If you choose to ignore them, they aren't saying it will go wrong; just that you're then making the design choice and if you get it wrong, it's then your responsibility.

I do not think anyone disagrees that changing the speakers will change the sound. The theory is that changing the amp will not change the sound.

My guess is that the inductance issue you mention relates to speaker cable. Naim are a helpful bunch so I' m sure if you ask they would say something along the lines of 'the amp has been optimised for Naim speaker cable but if you wish to try others make sure the spec of the cable is such and such'. Same for preamp etc.

Do all amps limit bandwidth?

Changing the amp may (or may not!) change the sound as it changes the interaction between speakers and amp, but it probably will change.  It can also change the sound because of the different tonalities of capacitors (and other components to a lesser degree) between different amps.

Yes, all amps limit bandwidth; the question is at what frequencies, with what roll off rate, and with what phase change.

Adam Meredith posted:

Halloween Man posted:

My thoughts are, as with most things, there is a little bit of truth in everything...

Pretty woolly thinking.

Adam, doesn't your sense of humour leave you feeling sheepish? 

(OK, now I'm going to have to duck!)