Streaming system advice...thanks!

Oli G,

Which hard disks are you using in your Synology NAS?

Your Synology NAS will come with a perfectly good media player, and so to get up and running with a streaming setup, all you should need are a CD Ripper (I would recommend DB Poweramp), an android or apple device on which to run the Naim app and a streamer. The ND5 XS would be the cheapest option (unless you want to go 'downmarket' with something like the latest and pretty decent Cambridge streamer) and would certainly be up to the task of replacing your CD player. For what it is worth, although I personally like the top model from a certain company north of the border, I feel that the ND5 XS is better than the equivalent model from that company. 

You could decide to keep the CD5 XS (unless you need the money from its sale), but I suspect that once you have used the streamer, you will feel no need to play a physical CD.

Another option would be to but a used NDX, since many on this seem to think the performance significantly better. I am sure that either Naim model would be a revelation in your system.

Good luck  

Hi HMACK,

thanks for coming back. I am using 2x 3TB Western Digital Red in the NAS.

Regards

Just spotted that you have a DAC (nDAC?). This means that other computer based options are available, but my personal preference would be to use a streamer (even if the DAC in your ND5 would be surplus to requirements.

A nother streaming option (since you have a DAC would be the Auralic Aries Lightening. This is an excellent streamer (without an inbuilt DAC), that would cost considerably less than a new ND5 XS). Combined with an nDAC (if this is what you have), you would have an excellent set-up. 

Yes, it's the nDAC...

OLI G,

The WD Reds are optimised for use in a NAS/streaming setup. With 2 x 3TB you should have more than enough space for a pretty large phot collection as well as your music. Do you have the disks mirrored? Either way, you should make sure you have a backup regime in place for the contents of your NAS, but then I suspect you will already have realised this.

I can't emphasise too highly what a revelation moving from a CD based system to a streaming option has been for me. I listen to so much more music now than I ever have in the past.     

Given your other components: ND5 XS

At a later stage you can add a PSU to it.

If you move the system to your basement or somewhere, could you run speaker cables up to the living room? If you have a streamer (ND5XS or whatever) you control it over WiFi, so it doesn't have to be accessible in the listening room. Of course, your speakers still need to be child-proof!

Do you have the disks mirrored?

Yes, they are mirrored...I will not be looking to rip all of my CDs as most of them are lying around as mp3 (192 or 320) already. I know there are probably 150 discs or so that will definitely benefit from a higher resolution / better rip. I will be going for AIFF as I am not worried about disk space.

could you run speaker cables up to the living room?

Neat idea, but that's not an option in my house. Interestingly, my son is not interested in the speakers even when I don't have the grille on but I recently found out that he must have thought the volume knob on the amp was for pushing in rather then turning...

Hence my thought to just go for the mu-so, which I could place near an ethernet outlet to directly connect it to the router. In about 2-3 years time move the mu-so to the bedroom as 2nd system and go back to using the set I have now.

Have a nice weekend!

HMACK, many thanks for the advice re the Auralic Streamer...I haven't seen or heard of this before but interestingly, their dealer in Germany is the Naim dealer I bought all my boxes at...

I noticed there is also the option to replace both my CD and the amp with the combination of NAC-172xs and matching NAP-155xs. Wouldn't that give me the same setup as adding an ND5xs? Does anyone here know how it compares to the ND5xs option?

Thanks

Good combo as well. One thing: with this set up you cannot benefit from adding an external nDAC for your digital sources. 

Hmack posted:

OLI G,

The WD Reds are optimised for use in a NAS/streaming setup. With 2 x 3TB you should have more than enough space for a pretty large phot collection as well as your music. Do you have the disks mirrored? Either way, you should make sure you have a backup regime in place for the contents of your NAS, but then I suspect you will already have realised this.

I can't emphasise too highly what a revelation moving from a CD based system to a streaming option has been for me. I listen to so much more music now than I ever have in the past.     

I wouldn't recommend Mirroring.  Mirroring isn't backup, it's just protection against HDD failure.

A better solution is to have one disk visible from the network but the disk only accessible inside the NAS.  You then schedule a regular incremental backup from the visible NAS disk to the invisible one.  This way, even if you get hit by a ransomware virus, you still get to restore all your data (it can't encrypt the non-visible disk).

The ND5 XS is significantly better than the NAC-N172XS.

One other idea you could consider as a cheap way to dip your toe into streaming is to get a Google Chromecast Audio device. It has a high-res capable optical output which is probably compatible with your DAC, and only costs £30.

It's also compatible with Synology's DS Audio app to enable you to select tracks off your NAS and send them to your system.

The main thing to consider is whether you have a strong and stable wireless signal where your system is. 

Huge originally posted:

"I wouldn't recommend Mirroring.  Mirroring isn't backup, it's just protection against HDD failure.

A better solution is to have one disk visible from the network but the disk only accessible inside the NAS.  You then schedule a regular incremental backup from the visible NAS disk to the invisible one"

Indeed, which is why I suggested that the OP should implement a separate backup regime (preferably off-line or remote) for his NAS. This is what I do.

Your suggestion is a valid one, but with a couple of caveats.

1. It is more difficult to implement securely (unless you have some specialist knowledge)

2. You have no protection from a catastrophic event such as theft or fire. I actually know someone who was unlucky enough to knock his NAS of a fairly high shelf, damaging both discs - a very unlikely event, I know. However, theft would unfortunately not be quite so unlikely.

Mirroring has the advantage that if one disk is damaged or faulty, it is possible to  simply replace the damaged disk and be back up and running with little or no disruption. I appreciate that this is for some a bit over the top, and something that many people would not necessarily require. However, the benefit of keeping a regular backup in a second location (and not in another drive in the same NAS) is something that is a must for me. 

Hmack posted:

Huge originally posted:

"I wouldn't recommend Mirroring.  Mirroring isn't backup, it's just protection against HDD failure.

A better solution is to have one disk visible from the network but the disk only accessible inside the NAS.  You then schedule a regular incremental backup from the visible NAS disk to the invisible one"

Indeed, which is why I suggested that the OP should implement a separate backup regime (preferably off-line or remote) for his NAS. This is what I do.

Your suggestion is a valid one, but with a couple of caveats.

1. It is more difficult to implement securely (unless you have some specialist knowledge)

2. You have no protection from a catastrophic event such as theft or fire. I actually know someone who was unlucky enough to knock his NAS of a fairly high shelf, damaging both discs - a very unlikely event, I know. However, theft would unfortunately not be quite so unlikely.

Mirroring has the advantage that if one disk is damaged or faulty, it is possible to  simply replace the damaged disk and be back up and running with little or no disruption. I appreciate that this is for some a bit over the top, and something that many people would not necessarily require. However, the benefit of keeping a regular backup in a second location (and not in another drive in the same NAS) is something that is a must for me. 

I totally agree with offsite backups for fire/theft protection, and I do very much commend this - I use large USB sticks kept in my car.  The thieves who break into houses to steal car keys aren't interested in computer equipment.  Those who nick TVs, laptops, jewelry, cash etc wouldn't recognise a NAS even if it fell off a shelf on top of them, and they usually don't bother with car keys as they's only interested in making a quick buck down the pub, and don't know how to sell the car.

The problem with off-site offline backups is that you have to remember to update them occasionally.
The problem with off-site online backups is that they are potentially vulnerable to virus attack.

(I won't comment further about keeping computer or audio equipment on a high shelf.)

Implementing a secure NAS partition is dead easy

Don't set any RAID (aka JBoD mode)
Create a network share to one disk, and don't create a network share to the other.
Set-up the NAS's backup application in incremental mode.             Simples

If you want to go OTT and have mirroring protection, then use at least 3 disks in the NAS:

Data (Disk 0)      [RAID 1 with  Disk 1]
Data (Disk 1)      [RAID 1 with  Disk 0]
Backup (Disk 2)
Create a network share to the Data drive, and don't create a network share to the other.
Set-up the NAS's backup application in incremental mode.

Disks 0 & 1 appear as a single disk drive (called 'Data'). Only the 'Data' drive has a network share.

An interesting thought has just occurred to me, although possibly moot given recent legal interpretations of the legality of copying one's own CD collection for streaming.

In the event that, heaven forbid, you happened to be burgled and your entire CD collection stolen but your NAS left behind, what would your legal position be? Would you be forced to make an insurance claim and replace your entire CD collection in order for it to remain legitimate. What would happen to those albums which are now not available in digital format. Would the law require you to delete these albums from your NAS, even though they could not be replaced?

Hopefully, none of will ever have to face this issue.    

Hmack posted:

An interesting thought has just occurred to me, although possibly moot given recent legal interpretations of the legality of copying one's own CD collection for streaming.

In the event that, heaven forbid, you happened to be burgled and your entire CD collection stolen but your NAS left behind, what would your legal position be? Would you be forced to make an insurance claim and replace your entire CD collection in order for it to remain legitimate. What would happen to those albums which are now not available in digital format. Would the law require you to delete these albums from your NAS, even though they could not be replaced?

Hopefully, none of will ever have to face this issue.    

From a legal perspective a purchase of either a digital or a physical album is sufficient. Copyrights have not been violated and an artist was paid.  Replacing a stolen CD collection should be, from a legal perspective, equivalent to a stolen car. However an insurance company may require a proof of a collection. In that case, I would argue, possibly with an aid of a affidavit that the content of my server (ripped copies) is a proof of ownership of CDs.

We were in a similar spot. I had the nDAC, Nait XS, and a Synology NAS.

I also had a MacMini on hand so I started streaming via that. I started using the optical out of the MacMini and eventually got convinced of using an Audiophileo USB-to-S/PDIF converter instead.

The appeal of this is that the MacMini is already "sunk cost" and everyone in the household are familiar with iTunes and streaming (to an Apple TV). But in practice, this is a lot more complicated than it should (in my opinion). For example, I had to use Amarra since (1) iTunes and FLAC don't mix and (2) Amarra sounds nice. I found that this Synology-Mac Mini running Amarra-Audiophileo-nDAC with iDevices controlling always had something that needed tinkering. I guess this is fantastic if you are a tinkerer but while I enjoy it on occasion, I often like to just sit down and listen. I wanted something that just works.

I started looking for a simpler way. Devialet had an interesting one box solution but I have not gone far in my Naim journey so I think I'd carry on this Salisbury trail. The Auralic previously mentioned merited some exploring time. So did the stuff from Aurender. There are cheaper options too like Cocktail Audio, etc. My take on this is that you pick something whose user interface you can live with. I stayed away from the NDX or ND5-XS as I had the nDAC and didn't really like to waste the DAC on Naim's streamers.

In the end for me, my dealer had an ex-demo NDX on hand and gave me a great price. The Naim app just worked once I got the right music server set up on the Synology (I use Minim Server). I also took home a Naim DC-1 digital interconnect to try the NDX with the nDAC which I've not had time to do as I have been busy migrating my Synology DS411+ to a 1815+.

While I'd happily stay with this digital set-up for a while, I'd jump at the opportunity to hear what an XPS-DR can do for my NDX and whether that can hold a candle to my Superline-Supercap (non DR). I know it's a bit imbalanced given that the amplification is a Nait XS (the first version). I've heard the Supernait 1 and 202/200. While I like what the 202/200 did over the XS, I'd like to try Naim's other pre-power offerings first before I move on the amplification.

Good luck!

One thing, if I understood correctcly you plan to use your NDX with your nDAC.

A power supply upgrade should be to the nDAC, not on the NDX running in 'digital out'. There is  very little or no improvement on the NDX if it runs a digital out, but quite an improvement for the nDAC. I wouldn't call it a night-and-day improvement though, 

Many thanks for the helpful suggestions.

@RTSY, I would be interested to hear if you find the NDX is a good match with the XS...here in Germany, there are quite many used NDX available, sometimes for as little as 1/3 of the initial price (e.g. for a 2012 NDX). Getting a mint NDX with 1 year Naim warranty remaining for 1500 EUR seems a bargain.

I arranged for a home demo with my Naim dealer and he will also bring the mu-so. I am still curious how this compares to my existing system for a fraction of the price.

Will keep you posted.

@ OLI G, indeed, I find the NDX and Nait XS sound quite enjoyable.

This is much more so if streaming DSD. I'm not saying that Spotify or CD-quality FLAC is not satisfying. I think Naim worked hard to make standard resolution or even lossy files sound more than OK. This said, I'm not convinced the additional cost and effort from 16/44.1 to 24/192 is worth my effort. DSD is, to my ears.

I have tried over a weekend replacing my Nait XS with a 202/200 (non-DR) and learned that the NDX can take you up to your next amplification upgrade. I have not jumped on to the separates yet as I currently do not have space on my Fraimlite nor do I have the play money set aside for it.

I disagree with Huge that the 172xs is significantly inferior to the ND5xs. The 172sx is a smoother sound, but not inferior, to my ears anyway. Given the 172's price point and capability, I think it's one of the bargains of the Naim range - an unsung hero. It will very happily play with a NAP200 and I believe people have them with higher-end amps too. And it can be easily swapped for a 272 when funds permit. Don't rule it out.

I wouldn't bother with RAID or any form of back-up within the same NAS enclosure. I simply don't get the point of it - it's not a back-up, so you'll still have to do that, and it adds heat and therefore more fan noise  (HDDs anyway), and for what? For uninterrupted music IF it's the disk that's failed and not something else, and IF the reason the disk failed is unconnected to any other factor. If it's the power supply, CPU, fan or anything else within the casing, RAID won't help at all . . . unless you're thinking you can just buy a new box and put the disks in, in which case, maybe, but not necessarily. Disks don't like handling and catastrophic failure will do for all of them anyway.

Save your money and time - take proper back-ups and keep them off-site, and forget RAID.

Have a look at this thread: Naim System based On Mac Mini

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...m-based-on-mac-mini?