Chord Hugo TT into NAP 300 DR

I'm running a DAC with volume control straight in a 250 and it sounds so wonderful that I never missed a pre-amp. So you should go for a  try !

ralf

Halloween Man posted:

Good or bad idea? Can the Hugo's balanced XLR out connect to the NAP 300 XLR input?

I've read Naim's preamps are bandwidth limited to prevent the power amp from 'spontaniously combusting' so to speak. Do Naim's latest generation of power amps still get very upset if they get fed full bandwidth? Does anyone know if the TT also is bandwidth limited for the same reason Naim do this? Last question, does any of this really matter as connecting the TT will do the NAP 300 no harm with no loss of sound quality? Thanks.

It won't break it. Just remember the inputs on the 300, whilst via XLR sockets, are not balanced inputs so you'll need to use the conventional single ended outputs (RCA) from the Hugo. 

Another thought, when a cd is mastered are the ultrasonic high and low frequencies filtered out?

james n posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Good or bad idea? Can the Hugo's balanced XLR out connect to the NAP 300 XLR input?

I've read Naim's preamps are bandwidth limited to prevent the power amp from 'spontaniously combusting' so to speak. Do Naim's latest generation of power amps still get very upset if they get fed full bandwidth? Does anyone know if the TT also is bandwidth limited for the same reason Naim do this? Last question, does any of this really matter as connecting the TT will do the NAP 300 no harm with no loss of sound quality? Thanks.

It won't break it. Just remember the inputs on the 300, whilst via XLR sockets, are not balanced inputs so you'll need to use the conventional single ended outputs (RCA) from the Hugo. 

Oh, on signals website they state you can connect standard xlr? Who is right and who is wrong?

Get signals to make you up some cables then  - the 300 will need L &R cables wired differently for Ch1 and Ch2 as each socket has the ground on the same pin but the signal pin is different for each socket (see pic). I'd still go for the RCA outputs as i'm not sure what the Hugo's balanced output topology is.  

Seriously, can you connect tt balanced out standard XLR to NAP300 xlr inputs? Or do you need a special cable made up?

See my edited reply 

BTW - somewhere like Flashback cables can make you some custom cables if you want to experiment. They did some for me when i needed some for my old 300. 

Thanks James. That is weird, why have Naim done that?

Halloweenman,

You cannot connect balanced outputs to unbalanced inputs. XLR conectors have three pins so a standard cable would physically fit both devices, but it won't work (only two pins are in use on the Naim). RCA to XLR cable is what you'd need. No idea on how good an idea it is though. So both james and Signals are right.

Andy

Signals state "Naims use of a single XLR connect per channel means that conventional balanced leads can work from XLR equipped preamplifiers. we have had some good results with, dare I say it, a valve pre-amp from BAT (but a NAC 282 is better!)"

Very confusing

Will a standard xlr cable work as ground is on the same pin so should be okay?

I built a custom RCA to single XLR to go from a Weiss DAC202 straight to a NAP 250.2. 
I had high hopes but was disappointed. Going through a NAC 252 + SCDR was way better, especially in terms of clarity/separation. Which is odd considering the shorter path. The only DAC/Pre I have tried so far that came close was one from Ayon Audio that costed more than my DAC + NAC + SC put together.
Would be interested to read your impressions if you do go ahead.

Going balanced to unbalanced can be done with cables - it depends how the balanced output is generated on the source - i.e. transformer or active circuitry. Whilst transformer outputs are fine with this, some active outputs don't like the negative and ground pins tied when converting to single ended. I'm sure Signals were able to connect the BAT preamp to the 300 but it would have been via custom leads due to the way that Naim have wired the signal pin differently on each input socket on the 300. 

Halloween Man posted:

Thanks James. That is weird, why have Naim done that?

All the amps above the 200 use 3 pin sockets (XLR) instead on the 4 pin as they don't have internal pre-amp power supplies. Why XLR ? IIRC, i'm sure i read that XLR's were originally fitted for tax reasons on the Naim amps (as they are not balanced and wired differently to normal XLR sockets) - amps with XLR sockets attracted less purchase tax. 

Thanks James. So not a balanced input and requires special cable.

There is also the issue with limited bandwidth. On a Hugo forum I posted a question asking if the hugo limits bandwidth and Rob Watts, designer of the Hugo, gave an excellent reply:

"all of my DAC's are bandwidth limited to 50 or 60 kHz, as a DAC is a wonderful source of random RF noise. One of the very unusual things about my DAC's (from Mojo to Dave) is they do not have any measurable noise floor modulation, and I had to go to crazy lengths to do this from digital. But there is no point in having a DAC with no noise floor modulation if later on in the chain it has it due to the DAC's RF noise output, so hence the importance of bandwidth limiting... So no need to worry about out of band noise"

So the Hugo does have bandwidth limiting. Will this be enough to negate the issue of feeding the 250 or 300 full bandwidth? Richard Dane in another closed topic stated roll off before 40kHz whereas Hugo is 50/60kHz - does it matter? Thanks.

Worth checking with Naim to see what they think. I've run Naim power amps with non Naim preamps with no issues. You're unlikely to damage anything but the amp may run warmer if it's have to dealing with energy outside of its expected input bandwidth and may sound worse for it.   

Another reply from Rob Watts in Hugo forum "The target is to ensure no out of band noise, its not really about bandwidth per se. Dave has a noise floor that rises at a very much higher frequency than Hugo for example. Hugo is set to 50 kHz -3 dB, but using CD there is no measurable noise at all from 23 kHz to 50 kHz - so don't worry that its set to 50 kHz not 40 kHz. What is more important is noise at 1 MHz plus... "

Seems to me like it's a complete non-issue. Naim support also said running Hugo into 250 should be fine.

Not a direct answer, but I run Hugo (not TT version) direct into power amp (not Naim) and it sounds great, better than when I used with a preamp between.

Some people have commented about different experience re sound quality direct, and I suspect it may be in part to do with things like input impedance of the power amp, though possibly also how the amp responds to any ultrasonic components that might be present. Provided that it won't harm the NAP 300 - and I suggest a call to Naim to verify that up to 60kHz is tolerable - then you have nothing to lose in trying.

The only downside for me is that if I want to connect a different source I need to swap plugs, of course only when the power amp is powered down.

I'm considering either 250 or 300. If 250 can drive pmc twenty 26 okay (Naim support said it should be fine) then may be the better value for money option.

As you don't seem to have Naim amps (by your profile) why are you limiting yourself to the 250/300 with the Hugo. Worth exploring other options too which may be better suited to interfacing to the Hugo directly ?

i'm also looking at bryston... they have just announced their cubed amps. any others worth checking out?

Depends on budget - (i take it you must be up to about £7k if looking at the 300) - but the likes of Chord, Vitus should be high on your list as well as the Bryston.

I'd go and do some demo's to get an idea of what would be best for you and your system and tastes. 

prefer to keep budget under £5k. Interest in 300 as know of one ex demo offer. never heard chord or vitus but will take a look and see if any local dealers. Thanks. I used to own sn2 and it was superb hence Naim loyalty.